Slowly advancing in Regent

[CoRnJuLiOx]

Ok, I'm rather new to this game, so I'm not as knowledgable as most (I lost the manual a while back, didn't get much help from it), but here's my problem: When playing in regent mode, things start off fine, but whenever I encounter a rival civilization they're always a few steps ahead of me, technologically, culturally, territorially and if I don't cave in to any of their demands they wipe me off the map (this has happened six or seven times), I try to keep up as best as I can, but I just can't do it. I remember reading somewhere that the computer cheats and is ALWAYS ahead of you in a game, but how are you supposed to win when your enemies are knocking at your gates with musketeers and cannons while i'm still stuck using spearmen and warriors? Sometimes, even if I give into their demands, they STILL declare war on me.

I usually start the game by building my first city wherever it is I start at, to save time, and then I build one warrior, several workers (4 or 5) and then another settler to begin expansion. I then automate all my workers (I dislike having to micromanage them), and move my settler not too far from my first city, but I don't keep it too close. I repeat this process a few times until I have a civ that is of moderate size, and by this time i've already made contact with one of my rivals (who outnumbers me at this point). Is there any way at all to keep up with the AI in terms of research and military dev? How does one keep their citizens happy and content (i.e no civil disorder problems, I get that a lot)?

 

[Delphi456]

In the early stages, limit workers to ~ 1 per city. Your cities aren't growing big because you are cranking out too many workers.

May want to limit city spacing to CxxC, until you learn the basics, then you can toy around with other variations.

Micromanaging workers is a must if you want to move up. If you really hate it, then I suggest playing on the smallest map possible so you won't have too many cities to micro. Once you get the hang of it you'll kinda enjoy it.

 

[Optional]

Welcome to the forums, CoRnJuLiOx!

... until I have a civ that is of moderate size, and by this time i've already made contact with one of my rivals (who outnumbers me at this point).

Already? That's too late! Use 1 or 2 of your first warriors to go look for other civs straight away, for tech trading. You're missing the boat, because your AI rivals have already traded techs with each other before they meet you.
Your early game expansion will benefit from prioritising food and building an early granery.
If you want better, more specific advice, it's always good to upload a gamesave.

 

[CoRnJuLiOx]

What exactly do you mean by "CxxC"? Also, one of the biggest problems I seem to have is not being able to keep up, technology-wise. What do you suggest with regards to that?

 

[Delphi456]

What exactly do you mean by "CxxC"? Also, one of the biggest problems I seem to have is not being able to keep up, technology-wise. What do you suggest with regards to that?

There should be two spaces between your cities. This allows you to move defenders from city-to-city in one turn, if you have roads.

Post a sav and we'll take a look at it. You'll get tons of good advice.

 

[CoRnJuLiOx]

Right, heres my save. I'm playing Civ 3 Gold edition, 1.27f. Look forward to the advice.

 

[vmxa]

Just for the record the game is PTW 1.27F on a large map. Barbs off, pangaea with Zulu and Babs only.

 

[vmxa]

First thing I see is you are running 4/6/0. That means nothing, except you have several cities in anarchy, whoops.

income 298
147 sci
0 ent
57 corruption
90 maint
0 support
605 in the bank.
68 units
1 settler
23 workers
6 warriors
23 spears
2 horses
5 long bow

What can we say about this, well 23 spears at Regent against only two civs is really over kill. On a large map you could be a long time meeting the others. You probably could avoid war the whole game.

17 towns, so 23 workers is not bad.

First town named "." has no barracks, no granary, no bank, no university. This is not a problem in and of itself, but when you have build temple, market, lib, court, cath and colosseum.

It is making Leo's at 9 shields, going to take a long time.

Wow, still in despotism, big problem and needs to be top priority. Your main cost is very large for only 17 towns and is nearly a third of your income.

 

[vmxa]

Second city I looked at was Sardis. It has a granary, but is not growing at size 7, so this is a waste of maint and probably should never have been built. If you get out despotism, you can irrigate and grow or make a harbor.

Lib and making a uni, no good as you only have 4 beakers. Should not have make a lib and no sense in a uni, at least at this time.

Dariush, no idea why you would spend the shields and maint for a court here. The court and the temple shields would have been better used on a market.

Ghulaman making a granary and is size two not growing, so what is the point? On granaries, I would suggest one in maybe two early towns and no others. Yes there are times for more, but better too few than too many.

Zohak making a court, you must love these buildings, but what are you going to recover with it in this size 1 town?

Persepolis has a court. Ok you do understand that the capitol has no corruption and cannot be flipped, so NEVER build a CH there.

In anarchy, a real sin for the capitol. I do not build colosseums or cath so early in the game, if at all. However if you must build one, make it the cath as it give three content faces.

Pasargadae has a wall and granary, zero growth at size 8 and in anarchy. There goes another of your best cities. Walls are not needed at regent. If you need a wall it is not going to be in the core, unless you are playing Always War.

BTW a wall is not going to work on a city.

No need to go through the rest as you get the idea. I would first suggest that you go std map size and defaul number of nations, with at least roaming barbs.

This is the best way to get a true feel for the game. I would surely have place a lot more towns in the land you have and not spaced them out so far, but that is not the cause of the issues.

Well not the spacing. The AI has about 25 or 26 towns and you have 17. That should not happen at Regent. Your land is not that bad, you should at least have nearly as many.

You should have a goal of getting out of despotism asap. You should expand even faster. You should build fewer defenders. You should take more care with the building choices.

As you have seen too many structures cost money and that cost either research or troops to expand with. The old bread and butter or arms choice, but you can have both, if you manage your spending.

do build things, just because you can, be sure they will add to your progress, not slow it down. Good luck.

Oh, do use the lux slider to keep from riots, it is money will spend.

 

[CoRnJuLiOx]

Hey, thanks for the advice, i'll look into changing the way I play. I take it that you're not supposed to build every improvement in every town, am I right? Thats what I usually do when I start out, What factors would go into deciding what to build in a town/city? Is it unusual for certain towns to not be growing at all (i.e, remain stuck at 2 citizens) because they're placed in a somewhat arid region? Or would you just not place towns there at all?

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . I take it that you're not supposed to build every improvement in every town, am I right? Thats what I usually do when I start out, What factors would go into deciding what to build in a town/city?

No, not every town needs every improvement. Deciding what to build and where is about looking at the return on your investment. Building an 80-shield library in a town that's only producing 2 net bpt only nets you, at best, 1 additional beaker per turn and you have to continue paying the library's maintenance to get it. On the other hand, a library in a city making 30 net bpt turns it into a 45-bpt town, a 15 bpt increase, for the same shield and upkeep cost. That makes a whole lot more sense, doesn't it?

Some buildings also have other effects that need to be taken into account. If you're going for a culture win, you're going to need some temples. If you've got 6 luxes and a few cities that keep rioting, you may need more marketplaces for the lux effect.

Is it unusual for certain towns to not be growing at all (i.e, remain stuck at 2 citizens) because they're placed in a somewhat arid region? Or would you just not place towns there at all?

No, that's no unusual. Some cities just hit zero surplus food and quit growing. I put cities pretty much everywhere, even if they won't grow much. Even the tiniest town contributes something to my empire.

 

[vmxa]

CoRnJuLiOx
"I take it that you're not supposed to build every improvement in every town, am I right? Thats what I usually do when I start out, What factors would go into deciding what to build in a town/city?"

Correct, there is no need or profit form making every thing in every town, you will go broke. each structure gives you something. The question is or rather are:

Do I need it?
Can I afford it?
when can I best fit it in.

The answers change during the course of the game. That lib the give 50% boost to science, may be a bad idea when the first opportunity comes up.

The town may be at size 3 and how many beakers does it net right now? Are you going to do any research at this time, when wil you?

Down the road it may be a size 6 town and you are running at 80% research. The place has now gotten its tiles improved and you maybe getting 10 beakers.

That lib looks like a god investment now. some other town maybe be 100% corrupt and should never get a lib, unless you need the culture. I mean really need it, not just would like it.

Libs are one of the easiest to determine, but markets and aqua's are not so easy. It will not kill you to be wrong once in a while, it will hurt to be wrong all over the place.

The other thing I like to consider is not just does it help me, but do I need now and can I afford it now. Yes that market is a good idea here, but at 25 turns, maybe I need to do something else for now and wait on it.

"Is it unusual for certain towns to not be growing at all (i.e, remain stuck at 2 citizens) because they're placed in a somewhat arid region? Or would you just not place towns there at all?"

I will put towns down with no regard for the value of the land, well not entirely, I want to have all the land and I want it contiguous. IIRC you are playing PTW so corruption has a different model and placement is donw with more care.

They use a ring pattern, in C3C that was changed. The thing is you will be able to grow most towns at some point. Some places will require more structures and I will likely just let them still at size whatever.

In the early game you want to keep a sharp on towns to insure they are growing, if they can be made to at little cost. Despotism makes growth hard as it has a penalty on some tiles.

I would suggest before placing a town that you look at the tiles it will have and count the food. You may determine that you are better off to place it in the next tile.

The things needed for growth are 2 food per pop, the ways to increase food is too irrigate and rail. Build a harbor. The limit other than food is aqua/river and hospital.

Sometimes you can just move a citizen to a better food tile, other times you will need to irrigate. I will irrigate rather than not grow in most circumstances.

Granaries are just to allow you to grow faster and are very tricky in that they come so early. Most of the time I will no build them in more than 2 towns during the AA. I may come back and makes some more later, when the town is stronger.

I do not want to spend dozens of turn making a granary at critical time. I am ignoring the wonder as it is not an option at the highest level. You just will not beat the AI to it. So ignore it at all levels.

 

[schizerbone]

Hey, just bumping this...my first few times at Regent, I was able to keep up with the AI with technology, but this time, I'm not even close. Any suggestions for this? It's hard to fight an AI hellbent on destroying you with tanks/infantry, when all you have are riflemen/cavalry.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Trading and good empire and city management. Also, research horizontally rather than vertically.

 

[Aabraxan]

Hey, just bumping this...my first few times at Regent, I was able to keep up with the AI with technology, but this time, I'm not even close. Any suggestions for this? It's hard to fight an AI hellbent on destroying you with tanks/infantry, when all you have are riflemen/cavalry.

It's hard to say what went wrong without seeing a save or screenshots. Here's a quick list of the questions that come to mind:
What's your VC?
When did you start falling behind?
Is there a runaway AI somewhere?
Can you dogpile the leader?
Can you pick off any weakling neighbors that you've got?
What government are you using?
How many cities do you have?

 

[vmxa]

Hey, just bumping this...my first few times at Regent, I was able to keep up with the AI with technology, but this time, I'm not even close. Any suggestions for this? It's hard to fight an AI hellbent on destroying you with tanks/infantry, when all you have are riflemen/cavalry.

Yes a save would be useful. Have you looked at some of the threads on Regent problems here or the SG's? This one has some ideas that may be of use:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=289804

The first thing that we need to do is to see if your start is the issue. If not then it has to be your empire strategy. If the start is the problem, not much can be done.

 

[schizerbone]

Well, I actually fought through the war I had with the Mongols...all I did was build a bunch of H'wacha (I'm the Korean). I'm starting to catch up with science (still behind, but not as far behind as I was). I still had some questions, so I attached my new saved file...feel free to criticize. My question is basically, how can I win in my current situation? I turned space race off. I can't go for domination (at least I don't think so) cause I have no rubber. Only two civs are polite towards me: Greece/Rome, so not sure about diplomatic victory. Well, yea, I'm jabbering...hopefully this file is attached.

 

[vmxa]

First thing I saw was the score page and it shows you are tops in culture. So I presumed you have build too many culture making structures. Will I find Colosseum's and many with cathedrals?

On the map I see you have 7 towns on your island. It is a good idea to pack things much tighter, when you are on a small island.

Not sure how it is that your are in 1954AD and still do not have roads on tiles, still have trees on grass on a small island?

I see an MGL sitting around? You are at war with 3 nations.

You are at war and have support cost of 238gpt. This is more than 1/3 of your income and almost as large as your science budget.

As to war, you have 80 defenders and 20 attackers. That is not the way to make war. You have zero MP affect, so what are the defenders to do?

Workers 24 native, not much. A stack is forted on the home island, why not put them to work making roads? What happens if you get pollution on a tile with no access? What happens if you have landings? Why not clear the pollution on the volcano? Why did you found a town so close to it, one tile over makes it safer.

I see things like universities in towns that with a lib and uni make 6 beakers. That is a lot of shields and maint for about two beakers. You could have gotten 3 with a scientist for free.

Not one single army? So no HE or no MA or Pentagon.

In short sell off some of these structures, disband some defenders. Ideally in places that the shields will speed a useful build. Make a cav army and get it to the front.

Once you have an army and a win build HE and MA. Get 2 more armies and then make the MA.

Concentrate your forces and take down towns quickly.

 

[schizerbone]

First thing I saw was the score page and it shows you are tops in culture. So I presumed you have build too many culture making structures. Will I find Colosseum's and many with cathedrals?

Yea, this was my first time trying to have closer cities, and I was having a tough time managing the moods of the citizens. I guess I ended up making too many colosseums and such.

I see an MGL sitting around? You are at war with 3 nations.

Hmm, I'm not sure what MGL is...lol, sorry for being such a noob, and as of this save, I was only at war with the Vikings.

As to war, you have 80 defenders and 20 attackers. That is not the way to make war. You have zero MP affect, so what are the defenders to do?

Yikes, don't know what MP is either . I didn't actually want to start a war...the only reason I did was to get that extra oil resource down there. The reason I have a bunch of H'wacha (cannons) is because the Mongols sent down a bunch of infantry, and my cavalry kept on getting killed...the only way I could kill those infantry were with H'wacha (and a bunch of defenders defending those H'wacha..). I guess I should get rid of useless things like Musketmen, right?

Workers 24 native, not much. A stack is forted on the home island, why not put them to work making roads? What happens if you get pollution on a tile with no access? What happens if you have landings? Why not clear the pollution on the volcano? Why did you found a town so close to it, one tile over makes it safer.

Ok, makes sense.

I see things like universities in towns that with a lib and uni make 6 beakers. That is a lot of shields and maint for about two beakers. You could have gotten 3 with a scientist for free.

Yea, I really have to read up on when it is useful to build some structures and when it is useless.

In short sell off some of these structures, disband some defenders. Ideally in places that the shields will speed a useful build. Make a cav army and get it to the front.

Once you have an army and a win build HE and MA. Get 2 more armies and then make the MA.

Concentrate your forces and take down towns quickly.

Ok, I'll give it a shot. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Aabraxan]

Hmm, I'm not sure what MGL is...

Military Great Leader. I don't know what version you're playing, but in Conquests, they're used for Armies and small wonders. They can be used to hurry production on other large improvements, but I don't see that very often.

Yikes, don't know what MP is either

Military Police. Under some forms of government, keeping military units in a city keeps your people content.

Yea, I really have to read up on when it is useful to build some structures and when it is useless.

One such article is linked in my signature.