So today i started work on a Peloponnesian war mod

[Kyriakos]

New map (which is schematic though) and new graphics. The map is 100x100, but includes virtually all of the Greek world, from the south of France to the Black sea and from Epirus and Macedonia to Egypt.

This means that mainland Greece is not very realistic-looking, particularly since i wanted to seperate the important city-states from their ports (where it was viable, not in all cases, nothing for Corinth or Elis for example).

My aim is to have the warfare happen in the colonies.

I already found some maps, but more would be very usefull.

Barbarians (Persia, tribes, Rome etc) will be featured, but non-playable.

So this is a thread where you could help me with ideas about the mod. The AI in CivIII is not something to write home about, but i guess i can try to use it to its limits.

Here is a pic of the map atm. Distorted, but organic enough i think (i thought of using my massive maps of old, but this would mean endless hours of work on the mod, and i have been known to give up in such a case).

 

[Louis XXIV]

That map is awkward at that size. I personally wouldn't extend the map west of Sicily. I'm also not personally sure I would make Piraeus separate from Athens. If you could get a bigger map, Platea and possibly Argos would make better Athenian allies. Obviously, the ones on the islands as well.

But, yeah, a more focused map would do wonders.

 

[MajKira]

map looks very small
You know the game Hegemony Gold - War in Ancient Greece?
Biggggggggg map, where you can be Philip of Macedon fraction, father of Alex or other greek factions like Athenians or Sparta

 

[Kyriakos]

Yes, the map will change, i had some trouble with the map-editing programs, and existent maps are not sufficient.

 

[Louis XXIV]

I'll check to see if I have an old Civ3 Eastern Mediterranean map. Back in the day, I was trying to help someone with a Peloponnesian War scenario. I don't think it was ever finished, unfortunately.

The problem is I've changed computers twice since then so it was probably lost in the file shuffling.

 

[Kyriakos]

Its ok, i think i will probably use my Byzantine Empire map, only extended to the west so as to include Sicily. I made that map years ago and it is pretty accurate

Spoiler :

 

[Kyriakos]

Map changed

 

[Louis XXIV]

Plataea was an Athenian ally.

 

[Antilogic]

I was really, really hoping this would be a Civ4 mod. The Peloponnesian War scenario there sucks.

Are you going to use some scripted events (if that is even possible in the Civ3 engine, it's been so long I have forgotten) to handle the major diplomatic shifts? Will Argos be in a forced truce for the opening act and then open to alliances? What do the units look like--will there be a couple different types to play with?

 

[Kyriakos]

No events in Civ III, sadly, but one can have things like negative resources and negative wonders, being eclipsed over time, or appear over time, so as to cause a shift in power in a given moment.

There are many unit types in CivIII, and hundreds (literally) of ancient Greek units to chose from. Not sure how many will be in the scenario though.

 

[Kyriakos]

Anyone have a map of the correct names and placement of island cities of the era?

I am slowly creating Italy too:

 

[Antilogic]

Anyone have a map of the correct names and placement of island cities of the era?

My favorite source for info on this war is Donald Kagan's work, he has fairly good maps in his book.

 

[Dachs]

Try this map by Ian Mladjov.

 

[sophie]

Try this map by Ian Mladjov.

I feel like you've given this map to Varwnos before.

 

[Kyriakos]

A really excellent map, thank you for that

 

[Kyriakos]

So, any advice as to which factions are worth having?

In Civ III you can use as much as 31 civs. I would like to use all available numbers.

Would it make sense at all to have island nations in the aegean as independents, or at a Delian League "civ"? Or is it better to just have them be Athenian.

And what about the coast of Asia Minor?

 

[Antilogic]

Given the diplomatic tools available with Civ3, you can probably model the grand alliances with permanent alliances, and have the Argives as a third power in the middle that can sign on with either side (after their forced truce with Sparta expires).

I'm thinking about whether the level of military coordination between the different alliance blocs would be more appropriate with permanent alliances or with a united command. The Athenians struggled to keep their allies on board more than the Spartans, if I recall Kagan's book correctly after all these years.

Also, do you plan to make use of the Civ3 VP system?

 

[Louis XXIV]

I don't think it really makes much sense to have a bunch of different powers. Then again, the Peleponnesian League did have some unity issues, so who knows. I'd make the Lacedaemonains and Boetians different, though. I'd consider separating Corinth, but that's up to you. I don't think you can pass through friendly chokepoints so keep that in mind when Sparta has to do its annual march to Athens.

 

[Antilogic]

I don't think it really makes much sense to have a bunch of different powers. Then again, the Peleponnesian League did have some unity issues, so who knows. I'd make the Lacedaemonains and Boetians different, though. I'd consider separating Corinth, but that's up to you. I don't think you can pass through friendly chokepoints so keep that in mind when Sparta has to do its annual march to Athens.

Civ4 mechanics are a little more forgiving in that regard, but since we are in Civ3 it's an important thing to keep an eye on--open channels for troops to move is a must.

Given the size of the map, and presumably the roads allow you to move 3 spaces, it will probably take 3 or 4 turns to march to Athens from Sparta, assuming the path is clear. The Corinth-Megara corridor will probably pose the most problems here.

Are you going to add extra resources to the map to support the populations in the Argive cities? Maybe add some resource to the city tile to boost food output?

I'm also pretty interested in the unit design--will you be using the base game units exclusively? I figure you could represent the Spartan elite troops with a unique unit or simply an un-buildable unit with +1 or +2 HP. You start with a couple, and once they are gone, they are gone. Some distinction between the basic spear levy and the regular troops would be nice too.

Sorry, I post more questions than useful things.

 

[Kyriakos]

Thanks for the input

Unit mechanics are by far the most fun part. I do plan to have some unique units, which cannot be replaced if lost. However it is difficult to really simulate the war without an event file...

As for the Victory points i have not yet thought of that. Possibly it will be simple, having VP locations in the main cities. Also treasure-shipping might be implemented, for example to simulate in a way the black sea grain trade, or the Macedonian coast gold mines.