So...we Texans are "unhappy"?

I played the demo a lot and read a lot on the forums and such. I am not playing currently, so I simply forgot about that rule, which is insignificant when talking about the general unhappiness model and doesn't change the fact that what is being discussed is the fact that happiness is now mostly down to total pop of the empire.

Also I am not commenting on things like bad AI or game balance (research/production times, bonuses from certain buildings) because it would be unfair to expect a game to be good in these aspects so early. Surely early CIV4 wasn't. What is interesting to me (and what has been a huge negative shock to me) are the basic ideas, rules of the game, such as having/not having cottages, social policies, how research or economy work etc. I played the demo and expected to see something new, inventive, yet I saw simplifications to make the game play faster (yes, I am aware you and half the forum disagree - funny thing is, few days after death of a thread in which I was being continuously told the game has not been simplified I read interview with one of the developers in which he was explaining why they felt the game needed simplifying).
 
well i agree with that one who says that civ's citizens are sociopathic.
I like living in a big city(well not so big - 1 million people), i would change happiness in something like building development of the city(with the local hapiness obviously), GNP/people and availability of work, for which there's a need of a total rebuild of civ's gameplay:mischief:
 
As I said "as far as i know" - I am not playing CIV5 and base on my experience from time of game release and especially on what people post. So, I forgot the unhappiness from number of cities is in the game.

But it doesn't really change much since the main factor that influences the unhappiness is global population. So the NY/Texas/Mexico example is still valid. According to your theory, the bigger the population in a region that has different views to the ones represented by government's policies, the more unhappiness and this is simply not in the game. AS I said, if you had max population in NY and minimum in Texas and Mexico, it would be almost the same as in having all population in NY and exactly the same as having a lot more pop in NY than in the other 2 cities.

Actually, 2 unhappy per city is nontrivial and does change things. I'm not sure how the example holds up. 36 > 30 by 20%.
 
Since I first started playing Civ 3, I've been wondering why we couldn't have "regional" seats of government (something like a state capital) within our civ's. Even if it was just to affect the adjacent cities, it would help with maintenance, and it would be realistic, too.

Something like a big courthouse would serve the purpose.
 
<------- Texas Rules.:D

Texas is not unhappy because of the laws that govern both them and the yank's up north. Texas is quite fine with the moronic 'gub'mint. Because we have State Laws that differ completely from them yanks, and from them hippies on the left coast, and from them "family" men in Chicago ( :mischief: ) which is why our industry is still booming, our economy is still holding steady (mostly) and everyone wants to move here. Which proves (to me) in Civ5 terms that cities/states should have individual happiness.

Also, happiness being more difficult due to large nations makes sense in a non-modern media world. Now, its more like a small village as we can talk to our neighbors who live 2000 miles away every day. I think that is the reason for so much problems now. We need to start thinking like a smaller community, because the internet and media brought everyone together so efficiently.

Texas still rules!
 
Since I first started playing Civ 3, I've been wondering why we couldn't have "regional" seats of government (something like a state capital) within our civ's. Even if it was just to affect the adjacent cities, it would help with maintenance, and it would be realistic, too.

In Civ 4, a player had his palace obviously, and the national wonder Forbidden Palace, and could build the great wonder Kremlin (I think that's the right one). The Forbidden and the Kremlin acted as nerfed-palaces -- they didn't reduce the corruption costs (gold costs and unhappy due to distance from capital) as much as the palace, but placed correctly, I remember a well-placed triangulation of these three buildings having a massive effect.

In Civ 5, there is no corruption and all happiness is global -- so there really isn't the same role for the C4 style buildings. A building that reduced overall maintenance costs would be good -- a national wonder called "The Public Works" possibly.
 
The reason one expects to have greater unhappiness in a larger 'empire' is due to it having a strong central government. Strong central governments create onerous regulations and taxations which piss most everyone off at some point. They are also fiscally corrupt and inefficient. They also lose touch with the people they are supposed to govern. They become tools of special interests and ideologies. Their planning devolves to deal with the imminent issues rather than long term goals and consequences resulting in instability and unsustainability. In effect, strong central governments are exactly like drug addicts. There are even analogous 'interventions' that are contrived to deal with them ;-).

Were the US functioning as originally intended, a constitutional republic with limited federal power, the people in general would be happier and more prosperous. This is mainly due to their governmental power base being closer to each governed populace and therefore more accountable and also due to competition among member states. If you have 50 different systems functioning within the whole there is a greater chance a citizen may find happiness among one of them rather than all citizens finding happiness within one over-arching system.

The tendency amongst humanity and by extension history, is to accumulate power in one place. This is also why it becomes corrupt and inoperable and atrocities happen. Bad people gravitate toward power and control wherever it may be and all systems degenerate over time whether they be physical, political or otherwise. Having several of fifty degenerate at any given time is preferable to having the one giant system fail all together.

Prosperity can overcome this inherent unhappiness for a time but since it is tending toward dysfunction over the long haul this is unsustainable. You can witness this happening in emerging markets globally- China for example.

As to my fellow Texans out there, The Republic of Texas is having a nicer ring to it with each passing day...
 
Strong central governments create onerous regulations and taxations which piss most everyone off at some point. They are also fiscally corrupt and inefficient. They also lose touch with the people they are supposed to govern. They become tools of special interests and ideologies. Their planning devolves to deal with the imminent issues rather than long term goals and consequences resulting in instability and unsustainability....The tendency amongst humanity and by extension history, is to accumulate power in one place. This is also why it becomes corrupt and inoperable and atrocities happen. Bad people gravitate toward power and control wherever it may be and all systems degenerate over time whether they be physical, political or otherwise.

The exact same thing can be said of state governments. State governments have been responsible for formulating and executing some pretty heinous policies historically.


Were the US functioning as originally intended, a constitutional republic with limited federal power, the people in general would be happier and more prosperous.

Hmmm....yeah, I think the founders would disagree. I mean, we tried a confederacy of 50 mostly independent states and it really didn't work. It was a nightmare conducting business across state lines, dealing with land disputes between states, and on and on and on. Hence, they formulated a Constitution that both limits the power of the federal gov't, but also enables it via the Supremacy Clause to trump state legislation when federal law and state law conflicts in a particular field. But even the Supremacy Clause is limited because federal law trumps state law only if Congress intended for federal law to solely occupy that particular area of law. The Constitution also empowers the Supreme Court to exercise jurisdiction over legal disputes involving the states and its decisions become the supreme law of the land. And of course the Constitution gives certain powers exclusively to the federal gov't -- such as the power to raise and support the army and navy, etc. So, some people get really really heated about this arrangement, especially many people who live in Texas it seems.


If you have 50 different systems functioning within the whole there is a greater chance a citizen may find happiness among one of them rather than all citizens finding happiness within one over-arching system.

You greatly exaggerate the uniformity between the states and even regions within states. There is tremendous variety between the various states -- each have a unique politic and a unique culture. So, if a person hasn't found happiness in a state they're living in, I suggest trying a different state -- it probably has less to do with the federal gov't and more to do with your local gov't.


Having several of fifty degenerate at any given time is preferable to having the one giant system fail all together.....As to my fellow Texans out there, The Republic of Texas is having a nicer ring to it with each passing day...

The fact is that balance should be the goal -- and that is what we should be debating -- issues and balance (but NOT HERE because this is a forum for discussing CIV). When the federal gov't over-reaches, it must be put in its place -- When a state over-reaches, it must be put in it's place. Being absolutely anti-federalist is as silly as being absolutely anti-state power -- evils occur in either absolutist approach. Secessionist talk may play rhetorically to a small percentage of an angry and generally uninformed minority, but if carried out, it would ultimately lead to only long-term harm.
 
From a game play perspective it would be far superior to model happiness on individual logical factors rather than having such a contrived, simplistic mechanic as seen in CiV.
First off, you don't want your system to be a battle against one side of the equation. This become tedious and repetitive and allows for easy strategies to be implemented to overcome it regardless of circumstance.

You want your happiness level to be a function of the state of the current game rather than the same evolving circumstance you see in every game. This throttles down repetition and predictability and keep things a bit fresher.

Take a luxury for example. Your people could be happy because of it or unhappy because you do not and your unpleasant neighbor does. Luxuries also have a lesser effect over time...unless they disappear completely, then they were the cat's meow and they will hate you for it.

It would also be superior to have several 'factions' within your civilization that have their own happiness agendas. Some of these would run counter to one another making for interesting developments, especially versus their counterparts in competing empires. You can find a 'skeleton' of this kind of system in GalCiv2. Its very limited but a good start.

It is also important to separate national happiness issues from local ones. Stadiums may be a local happiness booster but should do little for the nation as a whole. Deficit spending, intractable wars, falling behind other empires are national happiness issues. In fact, building a stadium would more likely prevent UNhappiness rather than engender happiness from the citizenry. Depending on your fiscal state, building it could benefit a local city while pissing off the nation as a whole.

Also, things you do could make citizens of other nations unhappy, causing their leader to become irritated with you. This could escalate to the point where your people become unhappy with the situation as well but for different reasons. This makes games exciting; not knowing exactly what to do in a given situation and sometimes making a choice between the lesser of two evils.

I find it silly that unhappiness is a simple function of size and growth. In fact it is about as silly as the availability of food being the driving force of that growth, but thats another matter.

A system like this is deliciously complex, yet simple and well defined. You know exactly why your people are happy/unhappy and you have various methods to deal with them. Its complex in the grand scheme yet intuitive, logical and well described. IMO it is much more interesting than balancing a simple mathematical equation.
 
You want your happiness level to be a function of the state of the current game rather than the same evolving circumstance you see in every game. This throttles down repetition and predictability and keep things a bit fresher.

Yes.


It would also be superior to have several 'factions' within your civilization that have their own happiness agendas.

Don't know if you ever played the C4 Revolutions mod, but basically local populations would make demands for certain entertainment buildings based on certain factors such as: having reached a certain size, distance from the capital, close proximity to other civs, having a high percentage of other civs' nationality.....

Failure to respond to local demands would lead to local strikes, where the city would go into revolt for a number of turns unless the population were bribed with money.


things you do could make citizens of other nations unhappy, causing their leader to become irritated with you.

Yeah, if I've build all kinds of entertainment infrastructure near to a rival's city that hasn't, I would see their population being a bit envious of mine.


various methods to deal with them. Its complex in the grand scheme yet intuitive, logical and well described. IMO it is much more interesting than balancing a simple mathematical equation.

Agreed.
 
The exact same thing can be said of state governments. State governments have been responsible for formulating and executing some pretty heinous policies historically.




Hmmm....yeah, I think the founders would disagree. I mean, we tried a confederacy of 50 mostly independent states and it really didn't work. It was a nightmare conducting business across state lines, dealing with land disputes between states, and on and on and on. Hence, they formulated a Constitution that both limits the power of the federal gov't, but also enables it via the Supremacy Clause to trump state legislation when federal law and state law conflicts in a particular field. But even the Supremacy Clause is limited because federal law trumps state law only if Congress intended for federal law to solely occupy that particular area of law. The Constitution also empowers the Supreme Court to exercise jurisdiction over legal disputes involving the states and its decisions become the supreme law of the land. And of course the Constitution gives certain powers exclusively to the federal gov't -- such as the power to raise and support the army and navy, etc. So, some people get really really heated about this arrangement, especially many people who live in Texas it seems.




You greatly exaggerate the uniformity between the states and even regions within states. There is tremendous variety between the various states -- each have a unique politic and a unique culture. So, if a person hasn't found happiness in a state they're living in, I suggest trying a different state -- it probably has less to do with the federal gov't and more to do with your local gov't.




The fact is that balance should be the goal -- and that is what we should be debating -- issues and balance (but NOT HERE because this is a forum for discussing CIV). When the federal gov't over-reaches, it must be put in its place -- When the states over-reach, it must be put in it's place. Being absolutely anti-federalist is as silly as being absolutely anti-state power -- evils occur in either absolutist approach. Secessionist talk may play rhetorically to a small percentage of an angry and generally uninformed minority, but if carried out, it would ultimately lead to only long-term harm.

1. If a state govt enacts a heinous policy then one can leave and still remain a citizen of the republic. If a large federal bureaucracy does then one has to abandon their country, if they are able. One can vote with their feet so to speak.

2. Actually we never tried that with 50 mostly independent states, we barely tried it with 13. They also were not authorized to have a standing army. Border disputes can be settled peacefully. This is more often the case in history than warring over them its just they don't get as much attention. Settling disputes among states IS one of the few and primary functions of the federal govt, but it can rapidly go too far. Don't you find it amazing that we are currently deciding whether or not the federal govt can force you to buy something? Remember, those powers not specifically assigned to the federal govt are reserved for the states. Good policy as the founders were wise. The 17th amendment was an abomination and needs repealing to provide a check to the federal govt as it was the beginning of the end of responsible govt.

3. There are differences but they are diminishing daily. One can escape state corruption and bureaucracy but the increasing burden of the federal one is inescapable. Now that the feds have a giant system of redistribution amongst the states they control their actions more and more. Soon you will witness the bailing out of a major state by citizens of other states who had no say in the running of their dysfunctional govts. That my friend is taxation without representation. We are even bailing out other countries. Good thing we have a printing press...not.

4. I am speaking of balance. My entire ideal of govt is to get as near balance as possible for as long as possible. Currently the system is SEVERELY out of balance. The founders knew that the strongest government should be local and the further you deviate from that the worse off you will be. Ideally you want your city/county to be the strongest law over you, then your state, then your nation, then the rest of the world if that is even of interest to you. The further removed it is, the worse off we are.

Lastly, the reason we in Texas are so keen on secession is because our state is the closest to the original founders intent amongst the states (though not quite close enough). We look at the feds much like the colonies looked at England. We see mandate after mandate coming down from on high and greater and greater interference. We don't see the feds taking our interests to heart. It exists for its own purposes and self preservation. Even now they are inflating our currency to cover their own arses at the expense of our prosperity. They collude with private industry against the citizens. My god man, we even have a cabal of PRIVATE banks in charge of our currency, banking and economy! That would be the federal reserve in case you were wondering. Frankly I can't see how anyone could defend the current system. The founders are rolling over in their graves even though they knew this would probably happen. They gave us a Republic, too bad we couldn't keep it.
 
Yes.




Don't know if you ever played the C4 Revolutions mod, but basically local populations would make demands for certain entertainment buildings based on certain factors such as: having reached a certain size, distance from the capital, close proximity to other civs, having a high percentage of other civs' nationality.....

Failure to respond to local demands would lead to local strikes, where the city would go into revolt for a number of turns unless the population were bribed with money.




Yeah, if I've build all kinds of entertainment infrastructure near to a rival's city that hasn't, I would see their population being a bit envious of mine.




Agreed.

Yes I did play the Rev mod as well as a plethora of others. I ended up with Rise of Mankind a New Dawn which was a compilation of alot of them. Sadly it go so 'robust' I'd have memory allocation errors later in the game. Perhaps I need to upgrade to 64 bit Win7 to utilize more memory. Currently that is the only reason I'm not playing it.
 
<------- Texas Rules.:D

Texas is not unhappy because of the laws that govern both them and the yank's up north. Texas is quite fine with the moronic 'gub'mint. Because we have State Laws that differ completely from them yanks, and from them hippies on the left coast, and from them "family" men in Chicago ( :mischief: ) which is why our industry is still booming, our economy is still holding steady (mostly) and everyone wants to move here. Which proves (to me) in Civ5 terms that cities/states should have individual happiness.

So your difference in state law is the reason I can't have socialized medical insurance and an equitable social structure for all in Ohio or Illinois? Also, where do you and others gather that "everyone wants to move" to Texas? I don't deny that your state offers a wealth of opportunites for wage-slavery (or normal slavery should you be Mexican) and is building a rather successful modern economy after the model of authoritarian China, but I would hardly attribute net in-migration to some kind of cultural allure.

I don't mean this to be an ad-hominem, but can you perhaps now see how big countries with big populations make everyone a little more unhappy?
 
So your difference in state law is the reason I can't have socialized medical insurance and an equitable social structure for all in Ohio or Illinois? Also, where do you and others gather that "everyone wants to move" to Texas? I don't deny that your state offers a wealth of opportunites for wage-slavery (or normal slavery should you be Mexican) and is building a rather successful modern economy after the model of authoritarian China, but I would hardly attribute net in-migration to some kind of cultural allure.

I don't mean this to be an ad-hominem, but can you perhaps now see how big countries with big populations make everyone a little more unhappy?

Wow, talk about ignorant. However that does explain your desire for the government to take care of you since doing so yourself might be beyond your abilities. You might try moving to Massachusetts. They have socialized medicine and a high tax rate and similarly languishing economy that you would be accustomed to in Ohio and Illinois. To be honest, there is a reason people are leaving the corrupt and dysfunctional states like Illinois and there is a reason many of those people are coming to Texas. Yes, they are all coming here to be slaves like the poor Mexicans. Tsk tsk
 
Actually we never tried that with 50 mostly independent states, we barely tried it with 13.

Ha ha. True, of course. But, I wouldn't say that we "barely" tried it. We tried it in a way that restricted the federal gov't to such a degree that the confederation simply didn't function.



They also were not authorized to have a standing army.

Are you suggesting that each of the 50 states ought to have independent standing armies with sworn allegiance to the state and taking their orders from the state?!



Settling disputes among states IS one of the few and primary functions of the federal govt, but it can rapidly go too far.

In order for the federal judiciary to decide disputes between the states, the federal gov't must have power over the states. Were it any other way, the states would simply treat federal decisions as advisory, which would violate the cases-and-controversies requirement of the Constitution. Furthermore, there are many other primary functions of the three branches of the federal gov't IF you are defining those functions under the U.S. Constitution, which I assume you are.



The 17th amendment was an abomination and needs repealing to provide a check to the federal govt as it was the beginning of the end of responsible govt.

The 17th? "No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Reps, shall take effect, until an election of Reps shall have intervened." This is the downfall of responsible gov't? Really?



Remember, those powers not specifically assigned to the federal govt are reserved for the states.

Yes, I remember the portion of the 10th Amendment you are referring to. But, I'm not sure what your point is. The Constitution delegates significant powers to the federal gov't -- both explicit and implied powers. And let's not forget the Supreme Court's valid role in interpreting this document and those powers. And anyways, many state and federal functions are overlapping -- concurrent power is more pervasive than exclusive state or federal power.



Don't you find it amazing that we are currently deciding whether or not the federal govt can force you to buy something?

Not really. The reasoning behind the policy is fairly analogous to the reasoning underlying CA requiring me to buy car insurance or MA requiring its citizens to obtain health insurance.

And when it comes to questioning the constitutional authority of such actions, to me the difference between the state vs. fed mandating such individual action is simply a difference source of power -- state police powers vs. Congress exercising its Section 8 power to provide for the general Welfare of the U.S.

Is it the best way of providing for the general Welfare and dealing with the issue of access to healthcare? Arguable.



Soon you will witness the bailing out of a major state by citizens of other states who had no say in the running of their dysfunctional govts. That my friend is taxation without representation.

Uhm. So, "THAT" event, which hasn't happened "IS taxation without representation." hmmm



We are even bailing out other countries.

Well, you know, some ascribe to the idea that goodwill between nations is a good thing -- and besides, the economy is global (even in Texas).



Currently the system is SEVERELY out of balance.

The balance is certainly skewed following two major events in our history: the Civil War and the Great Depression. But, I think it requires a discussion of specific issues before your statement really means much.



The founders knew that the strongest government should be local and the further you deviate from that the worse off you will be.

Not so much. I mean, yes and no. They went lots of different ways on the issue. Some were highly distrustful of centralized gov't, others not so much, others wanted to provide the office of the President with the powers of a monarch. It was messy.

That's why the Constitution is universally recognized as a compromise. But, I would say that it is generally true that the founders felt that people would be more supportive of their local government, which would be a natural check against the federal gov't.

On the other hand, because the federal gov't is made up of local people, they also believed that the federal gov't would be inclined to look first to the states for support of its national agenda. And I would say this has proven mostly true.

What the founders probably did not anticipate was Congress delegating significant authority to the federal agencies and empowering with law making authority.



Ideally you want your city/county to be the strongest law over you, then your state, then your nation, then the rest of the world if that is even of interest to you.

I don't share that absolutist ideal. I prefer a system of concurrent powers in which legitimate law-making authority is placed in the legislators of the states and federal gov't respectively, where each informs and is informed by the other, by the other branches, by the citizens, and by judicial decision making. The first test of a law shouldn't be whether or not it originates in my neighborhood. As such, I believe that (gulp) our jurisprudence has gained significantly from other nations.

Moreover, when I think of issues like slavery, Jim Crow laws, racial equality in public schools and the work place, labor conditions, child labor, health and safety issues in the workplace, safety standards in food and medicine, gender issues, issues effecting the disabled, issues of national concern like terrorism, immigration, and voting, etc...... I really think that the Supremacy Clause is fairly necessary.

However, it does get frustrating living in a progressive state when other states and the federal gov't seem to cling to social policies that often seem decades past their prime. Hence, political activism, which is alive and well in the U.S.



Lastly, the reason we in Texas are so keen on secession is because our state is the closest to the original founders intent amongst the states (though not quite close enough). We look at the feds much like the colonies looked at England. We see mandate after mandate coming down from on high and greater and greater interference. We don't see the feds taking our interests to heart. It exists for its own purposes and self preservation.

Well, i grant you that Texans tend to have an over-inflated ego and tend to be a bit paranoid, but that's okay. It is good to have a state like Texas in the union -- they give the rest of the states something to reflect. When I read and hear Texas politics, it just makes me appreciate my state that much more. ;)



Even now they are inflating our currency to cover their own arses at the expense of our prosperity. They collude with private industry against the citizens....they are inflating our currency to cover their own arses at the expense of our prosperity.

The most ironic thing is that some of the worst offenders of this came with the last administration -- a bunch of dudes from Texas.
 
Ha ha. True, of course. But, I wouldn't say that we "barely" tried it. We tried it in a way that restricted the federal gov't to such a degree that the confederation simply didn't function.





Are you suggesting that each of the 50 states ought to have independent standing armies with sworn allegiance to the state and taking their orders from the state?!





In order for the federal judiciary to decide disputes between the states, the federal gov't must have power over the states. Were it any other way, the states would simply treat federal decisions as advisory, which would violate the cases-and-controversies requirement of the Constitution. Furthermore, there are many other primary functions of the three branches of the federal gov't IF you are defining those functions under the U.S. Constitution, which I assume you are.





The 17th? "No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Reps, shall take effect, until an election of Reps shall have intervened." This is the downfall of responsible gov't? Really?





Yes, I remember the portion of the 10th Amendment you are referring to. But, I'm not sure what your point is. The Constitution delegates significant powers to the federal gov't -- both explicit and implied powers. And let's not forget the Supreme Court's valid role in interpreting this document and those powers. And anyways, many state and federal functions are overlapping -- concurrent power is more pervasive than exclusive state or federal power.





Not really. The reasoning behind the policy is fairly analogous to the reasoning underlying CA requiring me to buy car insurance or MA requiring its citizens to obtain health insurance.

And when it comes to questioning the constitutional authority of such actions, to me the difference between the state vs. fed mandating such individual action is simply a difference source of power -- state police powers vs. Congress exercising its Section 8 power to provide for the general Welfare of the U.S.

Is it the best way of providing for the general Welfare and dealing with the issue of access to healthcare? Arguable.





Uhm. So, "THAT" event, which hasn't happened "IS taxation without representation." hmmm





Well, you know, some ascribe to the idea that goodwill between nations is a good thing -- and besides, the economy is global (even in Texas).





The balance is certainly skewed following two major events in our history: the Civil War and the Great Depression. But, I think it requires a discussion of specific issues before your statement really means much.





Not so much. I mean, yes and no. They went lots of different ways on the issue. Some were highly distrustful of centralized gov't, others not so much, others wanted to provide the office of the President with the powers of a monarch. It was messy.

That's why the Constitution is universally recognized as a compromise. But, I would say that it is generally true that the founders felt that people would be more supportive of their local government, which would be a natural check against the federal gov't.

On the other hand, because the federal gov't is made up of local people, they also believed that the federal gov't would be inclined to look first to the states for support of its national agenda. And I would say this has proven mostly true.

What the founders probably did not anticipate was Congress delegating significant authority to the federal agencies and empowering with law making authority.





I don't share that absolutist ideal. I prefer a system of concurrent powers in which legitimate law-making authority is placed in the legislators of the states and federal gov't respectively, where each informs and is informed by the other, by the other branches, by the citizens, and by judicial decision making. The first test of a law shouldn't be whether or not it originates in my neighborhood. As such, I believe that (gulp) our jurisprudence has gained significantly from other nations.

Moreover, when I think of issues like slavery, Jim Crow laws, racial equality in public schools and the work place, labor conditions, child labor, health and safety issues in the workplace, safety standards in food and medicine, gender issues, issues effecting the disabled, issues of national concern like terrorism, immigration, and voting, etc...... I really think that the Supremacy Clause is fairly necessary.

However, it does get frustrating living in a progressive state when other states and the federal gov't seem to cling to social policies that often seem decades past their prime. Hence, political activism, which is alive and well in the U.S.





1. Well, i grant you that Texans tend to have an over-inflated ego and tend to be a bit paranoid, but that's okay. It is good to have a state like Texas in the union -- they give the rest of the states something to reflect. When I read and hear Texas politics, it just makes me appreciate my state that much more. ;)





2. The most ironic thing is that some of the worst offenders of this came with the last administration -- a bunch of dudes from Texas.

1. Them's fightin' words! You dont like our politics? That whole state legislature only meets for a few months every other year too common sense for ya? Or Whut?!
:)

2. Are you really trying to point to the "dudes from Texas" as big government (and yeah they did) but not mention how pitiful there attempts at big government were compared to the current sitting US head of state?
 
Quick Notes in my Quick Reply to Atwork and the last half dozen posts:

1. Political theorists during the early years of our republic saw the states as what has become known as "incubators of experimentation and invention" in public policy. So, if something works in one state, we can all learn from it; if something goes badly we can learn from that, too.

2. The power of judicial review by the Supreme Court is NOT in the Constitution. It was a power grabbed (or connived by John Marshall over a span of decades). Many of the founders, such as Jefferson and Madison (but what did they know about American political philosophy?) argued that determining the constitutionality of a law or act should be made by the three branches of govenment and the states generally. Certainly not by one branch and the unelected one at that. As late as Jackson, presidents were ignoring Supreme Court decisions. Lincoln made damn sure the question of secession never came up before the Supreme Court because he knew he would not be supported in his claim that it was unconstitutional--and he feared the effect on public opinion (in the north--nobody in the South ever voted for him anyway...and I mean NOBODY) in his waging war on the Confederacy. (BTW, in 1848 Lincoln argued that, OF COURSE, it was the right of any people within a larger polity to secede and determine their own political destiny...he saw it as the right of self-government.

3. At the other end of the federalism scale from Jefferson was Hamilton. But even Hamilton argued that the people would naturally trust and rely more on their state governments than a distant national authority. In Federalist #17 Hamilton uses as a given the assertion that it is far more likely that the state authority will encroach on the power of the national authority than vice versa.

4. Sam Houston declined the first offer of the U.S. to annex Texas. He said "Texas can make it without the United States, but the United States can make it without Texas only at great hazard."

5. I wouldn't mind seeing California and Illinois secede. They are both going belly-up, and I don't want to bail them out. I do still want to go to Chicago and eat pizza, though. They can still come here and eat barbecue.

6. I forgot what #6 was...
 
Oh, yeah,

#6. Atwork quoted the 27th Amendment, not the 17th Amendment. The 17th Amendment took away the power of state legislatures from electing their state's senators; thereby depriving the state governments a powerful tool in influencing the national government.
 
Moderator Action: this is not the place to discuss Texan politics, if this dose not get back on topic I will close the thread
 
Texas is my favorite state... and I don't live there. But will one day. They should make the game so that more government makes everyone unhappy, and that would be realism == gameplay in perfect proportions. History has proved it, and it continues today.

All it takes for highly centralized gov't powers is for a maniac to get in there, and the happy people all end up depressed.
 
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