the cities in quesion are the larger one (9+) which are very close (sorounding) the enemy's capital... is there any other method other than burning them down then rebiulding? i would perfer to keep these larger cities but so far i find it near impossible to hold them before you can build up any culture yourself... my last game i tried to hold these cities, built up culture as fast as possible yet still lost these cites so the next time i said the hell with it and burned them down and rebuilt (all except 1 which i somehow held on to) so what is the best strategy, i have read many of the other posts on this subject but i still dont know what the best approach is
So, what is the best method to hold cities?
- Thread starter rubble
- Start date
thealien_83
King
If viable, the best thing possible is of course to simply "overculture" your enemy so grossly that it doesn't revert back in the blink of an eye. But that can be more easily said than done indeed.
The other day I took several cities (size 7+). After I quelled the resisters one of those cities kept reverting, which I promptly re took over and over again. I started saving my game at the end of each turn and if the city reverted I would load the save and make ALL the inhabitants into entertainers. This of course caused starvation but the city did not revert in that turn???? I then rushed several culture buildings and used builders of my own culture to replace the people lost through starvation. I only had to do this three or four times till the city became stable and has not reverted in 20 turns since.
Hurricane
Sleeping Dragon
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2001
- Messages
- 1,197
City defection is a pain in the ass. Much more important than your total culture compared to the enemy´s is the amount of culture in the city itself. Because of resisters you will have a hard time building culture in it fast.
As Ips pointed out, there are different ways of keeping the city - starving, entertaining and garrisoning. But they all only work to a certain extent, and no matter what you do will some cities defect anyway. So it´s a matter of personal preference: either raze the city and build your own, or just bombard it to size 6 or something and try to keep it.
Some also use own workers to add to the city. I´m not sure about how many you need to keep it from defecting, though.
As Ips pointed out, there are different ways of keeping the city - starving, entertaining and garrisoning. But they all only work to a certain extent, and no matter what you do will some cities defect anyway. So it´s a matter of personal preference: either raze the city and build your own, or just bombard it to size 6 or something and try to keep it.
Some also use own workers to add to the city. I´m not sure about how many you need to keep it from defecting, though.
curmudgeon42
Chieftain
If you add a worker captured from another civ to one of yr cities, what nationality is it? Yours, or the civ you captured it from?
Sam_Catchem
Prince
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2001
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- 350
Yeah..I also think that their new capital will be weaker culture center. I prefer to raze the capital...and another city. That knocks their culture down right quick. Then it is smooth sailing.
??
If you add a captured worker to a city then it's nationality is it's original nationality.
What I don't understand is if you capture a city (American for example) and add a heap of foreign workers to it (French and German) then the French and Germans join in with the Americans in protesting the "aggression against our mother country" even if you are ONLY at war with America
If you add a captured worker to a city then it's nationality is it's original nationality.
What I don't understand is if you capture a city (American for example) and add a heap of foreign workers to it (French and German) then the French and Germans join in with the Americans in protesting the "aggression against our mother country" even if you are ONLY at war with America
Sam_Catchem
Prince
- Joined
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- Messages
- 350
Makes sense..they were slaves. They would be a little ticked..even though you just gave them freedom.
Fierro1816
The bearded man
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2001
- Messages
- 156
Defection should prompt a window with these options:
"It´s ok, let them go" : You accept the defection...
"Get me X Emperor" : You inmediately discuss with that civ the city´s sovereign governament, including the option of a full independence deal (it´s better free that with the enemy).
"Declare war at once" : If the civ accepts the city to be part of their country, you can declare war without rep hit.
"It´s ok, let them go" : You accept the defection...
"Get me X Emperor" : You inmediately discuss with that civ the city´s sovereign governament, including the option of a full independence deal (it´s better free that with the enemy).
"Declare war at once" : If the civ accepts the city to be part of their country, you can declare war without rep hit.
Defection!I never got an option message---just a notification ' --told they were evil.'
When I took what I wanted from the French this time, I suddenly realized I would not be able to hold it. I have done all of the above, entertainers, stravartion, garrison, culture rush once the resistors starved or ran away.
So I just took their capital. Solved that problem.
This question of how to hold conquered cities keeps popping up. I'll tell you a few more options that haven't been mentioned:
1) Just let it flip. Empty it out, and have an offensive unit or two next door to retake it just in case.
2) Hello, like, make peace!
3) Still no patch? Sell the city to a third party who gives you Right of Passage. Not sure if that'll work post-patch.
4) If you're gold-rich or still in Despotism, hurry out Workers & Settlers. Don't just waste the population--waste them in a useful manner. What's a worker--36 gold to hurry?
5) Once the city is stabilized (i.e. no resistance, no disorder, no starvation), train workers the normal way. If you're food-rich, this replaces the foreign nationals with your own citizens. If you're not food-rich, this slowly reduces the population. Either way, it's good. If you're pop 1, train a warrior to garrison.
Also, a few things about garrisons:
1) It seems you MUST have at least as many units as citizens to prevent a flip, when you're in disorder/resistance. I've had flips when I had "almost" enough, but never when I matched or exceeded the citizens. When you bring the city to order, you can slack off a little bit.
2) This is all the more reason to attack the AI with an overwhelming force--not just to minimize casualties, but so you can garrison. If you just have an "edge," you need to wait. Hard as it is.
3) Keep all those old Swordsmen, Hoplites, etc.. They make great garrison units, while your Cavalry goes out and does the fighting.
4) Have any other useless, one-shield, 1-pop cities in your empire? Train up warriors specifically for garrisoning. This suddenly makes those cities useful.
5) Draft. Conscripts garrison beautifully. Another use for useless and/or "Growth in 9999" cities. Just watch your happiness.
6) You'll tend to garrison and heal damaged units at the same time, so if you don't have Sun Tzu, you can hurry a Barracks out, to heal faster. (BTW this is the single biggest selling point for Sun Tzu: you have automatic Barracks even while the city is still resisting.)
1) Just let it flip. Empty it out, and have an offensive unit or two next door to retake it just in case.
2) Hello, like, make peace!
3) Still no patch? Sell the city to a third party who gives you Right of Passage. Not sure if that'll work post-patch.
4) If you're gold-rich or still in Despotism, hurry out Workers & Settlers. Don't just waste the population--waste them in a useful manner.
What's a worker--36 gold to hurry?5) Once the city is stabilized (i.e. no resistance, no disorder, no starvation), train workers the normal way. If you're food-rich, this replaces the foreign nationals with your own citizens. If you're not food-rich, this slowly reduces the population. Either way, it's good. If you're pop 1, train a warrior to garrison.
Also, a few things about garrisons:
1) It seems you MUST have at least as many units as citizens to prevent a flip, when you're in disorder/resistance. I've had flips when I had "almost" enough, but never when I matched or exceeded the citizens. When you bring the city to order, you can slack off a little bit.
2) This is all the more reason to attack the AI with an overwhelming force--not just to minimize casualties, but so you can garrison. If you just have an "edge," you need to wait. Hard as it is.
3) Keep all those old Swordsmen, Hoplites, etc.. They make great garrison units, while your Cavalry goes out and does the fighting.
4) Have any other useless, one-shield, 1-pop cities in your empire? Train up warriors specifically for garrisoning. This suddenly makes those cities useful.
5) Draft. Conscripts garrison beautifully. Another use for useless and/or "Growth in 9999" cities. Just watch your happiness.
6) You'll tend to garrison and heal damaged units at the same time, so if you don't have Sun Tzu, you can hurry a Barracks out, to heal faster. (BTW this is the single biggest selling point for Sun Tzu: you have automatic Barracks even while the city is still resisting.)
If you are in a real war, you should be in the Communist government. Otherwise you have to worry about war weariness, etc. Your gold will hurt, but you're out to rule the world, not collect gold. You can do that after the war is over. Corruption isn't too bad (execpt in the outer cities, but they shouldn't be the heart of your war machine anyway).
Since you are Communist, you have the advantage of sacrificing people for production. The trick is to load the city up with your military units, wait till the resistance has ended, and then start sacrificing the population for the glory of the mother country.
A nice 16 population town can be reduced down to 3 or 4 people in a few turns. Build your Library, Temple, and courthouse by rushing and sacrificing people. Who cares if it will take 8 people to build a courthouse. You don't want those people anyway, as you don't have the improvement to keep them happy, etc.
Then when the town is repopulated it will be full of your nationality. You can then move your troops out and continue the conquest. This works great against high culture enemies, like the vile Indians. You want to build culture items because that starts to lessen the likelyhood of defection later down the road.
Since you are Communist, you have the advantage of sacrificing people for production. The trick is to load the city up with your military units, wait till the resistance has ended, and then start sacrificing the population for the glory of the mother country.
A nice 16 population town can be reduced down to 3 or 4 people in a few turns. Build your Library, Temple, and courthouse by rushing and sacrificing people. Who cares if it will take 8 people to build a courthouse. You don't want those people anyway, as you don't have the improvement to keep them happy, etc.
Then when the town is repopulated it will be full of your nationality. You can then move your troops out and continue the conquest. This works great against high culture enemies, like the vile Indians. You want to build culture items because that starts to lessen the likelyhood of defection later down the road.
Communism rocks, if you're religious. For that matter, religious rocks, because you get to be Communist. But it's no substitue for Republic/Democracy.
P.S. Did anyone read the Civilopedia entry that says, "The more liberal your government, the less corruption you will have"? *laugh* The most liberal government in Civ3: Communism. And nooooo, Communism isn't corrupt at all, is it? Hmmmm somebody's political agenda getting in the way of writing an accurate manual? Hmmm?
But it's no substitue for Republic/Democracy.P.S. Did anyone read the Civilopedia entry that says, "The more liberal your government, the less corruption you will have"? *laugh* The most liberal government in Civ3: Communism. And nooooo, Communism isn't corrupt at all, is it? Hmmmm somebody's political agenda getting in the way of writing an accurate manual? Hmmm?
Arrian
Warlord
I've experienced captured cities reverting very, very rarely. Here's what I do (they are not in order of importance):
First, I do generally have the best overall culture in the game (I often play as the Babs, but often as other civs, and I'm always in the lead). The AI doesn't really emphasize culture, so it's easy to have more than them.
Second, upon capturing the city, turn everyone into entertainers. This will starve them. GOOD. Any new growth after you've made sure you will keep the city will be of your nationality.
Third, garrison a couple of units in there, but nothing you cannot afford to lose! Keep an offensive unit or two handy to re-take it if it reverts.
Fourth, as soon as resistance ends, build a temple, library, cathedral, and university. Rushbuild them (I usually wait 1 turn so it costs less). You will soon be pumping out "your" culture points in that city, which will help keep it your city.
Fifth, NAIL THEIR CAPITOL. Even though it moves, you've just done TERRIBLE things to their overall culture, and may well have moved that capitol farther away from the city you've taken over.
Sixth, make sure you connect the captured city to your trade network ASAP, so they get your luxuries.
Seventh, if possible, take them out entirely. No city reversion is possible if the parent civ is gone.
-Arrian
First, I do generally have the best overall culture in the game (I often play as the Babs, but often as other civs, and I'm always in the lead). The AI doesn't really emphasize culture, so it's easy to have more than them.
Second, upon capturing the city, turn everyone into entertainers. This will starve them. GOOD. Any new growth after you've made sure you will keep the city will be of your nationality.
Third, garrison a couple of units in there, but nothing you cannot afford to lose! Keep an offensive unit or two handy to re-take it if it reverts.
Fourth, as soon as resistance ends, build a temple, library, cathedral, and university. Rushbuild them (I usually wait 1 turn so it costs less). You will soon be pumping out "your" culture points in that city, which will help keep it your city.
Fifth, NAIL THEIR CAPITOL. Even though it moves, you've just done TERRIBLE things to their overall culture, and may well have moved that capitol farther away from the city you've taken over.
Sixth, make sure you connect the captured city to your trade network ASAP, so they get your luxuries.
Seventh, if possible, take them out entirely. No city reversion is possible if the parent civ is gone.
-Arrian
Culture flips are horribly named because flips have a keck of a lot more to do with happiness than they do with culture. Check out this pic.....
The happy faces are what prevents your city from flipping immediately when you take it from the enemy. Things that produce happy faces are culture buildings (temples, cathedrals, etc.), luxuries (siks, gems, etc.), and garrisoned troops. Keep in mind that if your government is republic or democracy then leaving troops in the city does absolutely nothing (that I know of) to prevent culture flips because they do not produce happy faces.
In the pic you'll see that I do not produce quite enough happy faces to keep this city without having it flip. If I were to leave this city as is, there would be a 40% chance (I think it's 40, might be 20) of it flipping at the end of my turn. Luckily, I am a Monarchy so all I need to do to prevent this city from flipping is move two troops inside the city and all will be well.
Actually, there is one more way this city can flip and this is where the culture aspect comes in. As I have no culture producing buildings in this city I don't "push" my cultural beliefs on nearby cities. Although there are none in this case, there could be other enemy cities producing extremely high culture very close and that is what I should be worried about.
There are ways to prevent this also. The quickest and easiest is to just take the next city over, then the next. But if you don't bring a large enough force to totally wipe out your enemy in just a couple turns (like I never do) you need to at least take out his culture and this is where bombardment really shines.
Either by aircraft, naval or artillery, a bombardments job isn't really to destroy the enemy so much as it is to cripple them (that is why you can't kill anything). Bombarding cities will not only kill citizens and wound troops it will destroy items in production AND destroy culture buildings. It's a seige. You draw the line at a couple cities and pound away with artillery until there is a weak spot.
That's the key. By destroying the culture buildings in nearby cities it will be much easier for you take over ANY size city you want.
I can't believe that simple reply turned into a lesson but I use to be a teacher, heh.
Anyway, I hope this helps some of you that are having problems with culture flips. There is so much more I could get into but that's the basic stuff.
Endureth
BTW, the pic is suppose to say 6 happy faces, don't know why I put eight.
The happy faces are what prevents your city from flipping immediately when you take it from the enemy. Things that produce happy faces are culture buildings (temples, cathedrals, etc.), luxuries (siks, gems, etc.), and garrisoned troops. Keep in mind that if your government is republic or democracy then leaving troops in the city does absolutely nothing (that I know of) to prevent culture flips because they do not produce happy faces.
In the pic you'll see that I do not produce quite enough happy faces to keep this city without having it flip. If I were to leave this city as is, there would be a 40% chance (I think it's 40, might be 20) of it flipping at the end of my turn. Luckily, I am a Monarchy so all I need to do to prevent this city from flipping is move two troops inside the city and all will be well.
Actually, there is one more way this city can flip and this is where the culture aspect comes in. As I have no culture producing buildings in this city I don't "push" my cultural beliefs on nearby cities. Although there are none in this case, there could be other enemy cities producing extremely high culture very close and that is what I should be worried about.
There are ways to prevent this also. The quickest and easiest is to just take the next city over, then the next. But if you don't bring a large enough force to totally wipe out your enemy in just a couple turns (like I never do) you need to at least take out his culture and this is where bombardment really shines.
Either by aircraft, naval or artillery, a bombardments job isn't really to destroy the enemy so much as it is to cripple them (that is why you can't kill anything). Bombarding cities will not only kill citizens and wound troops it will destroy items in production AND destroy culture buildings. It's a seige. You draw the line at a couple cities and pound away with artillery until there is a weak spot.
That's the key. By destroying the culture buildings in nearby cities it will be much easier for you take over ANY size city you want.
I can't believe that simple reply turned into a lesson but I use to be a teacher, heh.
Anyway, I hope this helps some of you that are having problems with culture flips. There is so much more I could get into but that's the basic stuff.
Endureth
BTW, the pic is suppose to say 6 happy faces, don't know why I put eight.
