Some early game help

[Codazzle]

Hi all,

I'm not necessarily a n00b, but I'm no expert forsures. I'm just looking for some early-mid game tips.

My general strategy is to try and avoid all wars until I get tanks, or at least infantry. It serves me well, but I cannot for the life of me wage a succesful war before then. The best I can do is defend, but not seize any other cities. Any tips on what I should be doing?

Also, I never seem to have any allies as the game progresses, no one ever likes me enough to trade!! Any diplomacy tips?

 

[billw2009]

Well I am not exactly an expert (I can comfortably beat Monarch, haven't tried harder yet), but I find the best tactics for early attack is plenty of seige weapons. I try to have equal number of seige and attack units. Also a nice spread of units aswell, i.e. a ratio of about 2 archer to 1 spear, 1 axeman for defense tasks (depending on what units the AI might bring against you), and lots of whatever your best offensive unit is for offense. Also keep some seige units for defense at your cities that are most likely to be attacked (high cultural contention, close to other borders), in case of stack attacks.
As far as diplo is concerned, I don't usually bother trying to appease my neighbours I just try to have a greater military, so they think twice before attacking. But I did try one game where I kept my military small, and just gave them tribute when they ask for it. That actually worked well as after the first or second offering they liked me so didn't keep asking. But really for total domination you are better off with a bigger military and then you can ask them for tribute

 

[Codazzle]

Do you suicide your Seige weapons and mop up with your other units? What level upgrades do you guys give your seige weapons?

I tend to do that with artillery if a city is full of gunships so my Tanks/SAMs can clean up the mess

 

[Birdman6]

Do you suicide your Seige weapons and mop up with your other units? What level upgrades do you guys give your seige weapons?

I tend to do that with artillery if a city is full of gunships so my Tanks/SAMs can clean up the mess

Don't fight gunships w/ tanks!!! Gunships have 50% bonus against tanks.

Lots of siege is critical and approaching any city without it is a big mistake. You want to bombard the city first and knock its cultural defense down to 0, then you suicide the siege causing collateral damage. Then clean up and capture with other units. In Civ2 or Civ3 siege wasn't that big a deal...in Civ4 you can't win battles without it.

As for siege promotions, I mix it up between city raider, barrage and drill. The expectation is the unit will die on its first attack, so you want any promotions that do the most damage before dying. I also always advocate a variety of promotions so you can handle a variety of unexpected situations.

Keep producing siege units to replace those that die.

 

[Codazzle]

Haha yeah I know the Gunship bonus to tanks, hence my suiciding of Artillery to soften them up, and I don't like to lose too many of my SAMs attacking so they can defend my tanks incase Gunships show up to attack my stacks, and also to protect my newly captured city since my tanks probs need a little healing.

And ok, I figured mixed promotions with suicide seiges was probs the best way to go about it, any other tips for early warfare?

 

[Birdman6]

And ok, I figured mixed promotions with suicide seiges was probs the best way to go about it, any other tips for early warfare?

Yeah why do you avoid war until late game? Don't overestimate the AI...they're often weaker than you think. Beating up on a civ early generates MUCH MORE reward for you than doing it late.

 

[bestsss]

Waiting for tanks can even cause you simple loss by the AI culture.
Fight early when you have advantage, AI is terrible at wars (not real fake difficulty passive bonuses aside production)

 

[Patak]

Hit them as soon as possible. I usually try to get the first AI city with swordsman only. And than with catapults I tend to kill the first AI.

 

[Codazzle]

My problem is that the AI always has way more units than me!!

Do I build too many buildings??

 

[Codazzle]

Sorry for the double post

Generally the reason I wait for tanks is because by then I have nothing left to build building-wise, so I just spit out unit after unit hahaha

The more I type the more I think my strategy is flawed

 

[Atranox]

I generally try to avoid producing more than 1 or 2 buildings in a row per city. That way you are sure that you always have a sizable military. When you're either preparing for or engaged in a war, you ought to stop building production in every city and only produce military units (unless of course the city is fairly new & absolutely requires buildings). My recommendation would be to adopt your military civics (at least get Theocracy or Vassalage for the experience bonuses) and then produce nothing but military until the war ends. During a war, you will lose units, so ensure that you're producing more than enough to replace your losses.

Also, don't be afraid to turn your research/culture/espionage sliders down (even to 0% if needed for a few turns) to upgrade your units when your time comes. Losing a few turns of research will pay off in the long run if it saves you from losing a bunch units because they're outdated.

 

[Dandenoth]

You could try playing a civ that has a good early game unit, such as Zulu's or Romans for fighting wars. Also, as far as allies go, you have to make them like. Either give them a good deal on a trade, keep open borders, as well as spam your religion to them through missionaries or trade routes. What I'll usually do is when I'm starting to think about a war is to find out what other leader dislikes the one I'm going to fight, and try and butter them up. They'll almost always join in with me.

 

[Codazzle]

I imagine that being an early wonder whore does not help me when trying to get a military going early?

I always try and build the early wonders for their culture, GP Points and the fact I can hardly ever get the late game ones! But it eats up huge amounts of my production doesn't it?

 

[Atranox]

You'll often find that trying to mix playstyles, such as trying to build wonders while also trying to enage in wars, doesn't work too well. It doesn't mean that you should never build wonders, but you ought to limit them definitely. Of course this doesn't apply to ever single game, but you need to weigh your options. At the time, you need to ask yourself whether or not you would benefit more from a wonder or from the military that you could produce in that time. Civics also play a large role in this. Generally when making wonder, you want Organized Religion and Bureaucracy (if your capital is producing the wonder). More often than not, you'll want Theocracy and/or Vassalage when your cities are producing your military units...so often times wars + wonders don't mix too well.

In general - if you intend on attacking early, your goal should be to capture a city with wonders, not to build them yourself.

 

[Sisiutil]

I imagine that being an early wonder whore does not help me when trying to get a military going early?

I always try and build the early wonders for their culture, GP Points and the fact I can hardly ever get the late game ones! But it eats up huge amounts of my production doesn't it?

Yes it does.

I have the opposite problem you do: I forgo nearly all of the early game wonders and, thanks to my extended empire with several excellent cities, I'm often able to scoop up many of the late game wonders.

There's a link in my sig to my strategy guide for the early rush. Have a look at it. In a single-player game, I see no shame in abandoning a game or two if an experiment doesn't work out, or replaying from an early save to try a different strategy.

 

[Birdman6]

Generally the reason I wait for tanks is because by then I have nothing left to build building-wise, so I just spit out unit after unit hahaha

Based on this statement, yes you build too many buildings. You need to reverse your mindset so that you train units by default, and you construct buildings only when you don't need important units.

I imagine that being an early wonder whore does not help me when trying to get a military going early?

I always try and build the early wonders for their culture, GP Points and the fact I can hardly ever get the late game ones! But it eats up huge amounts of my production doesn't it?

It sounds like you also build too many wonders, which suck up your hammers and you never accomplish anything. You gotta learn to prioritize and skip what you absolutely don't need...let the AI's waste their hammers on wonders and you can capture those cities later.

Building wonders for culture is definitely low-priority, unless you're going for a cultural victory. Building wonders for GP points is also low-priority because you should have a GP farm already handling that.

 

[huh?]

Based on this statement, yes you build too many buildings. You need to reverse your mindset so that you train units by default, and you construct buildings only when you don't need important units.

I used to be that builder also. There are a couple steps to recovery...

#1 Get into a habit of making a unit on every other build while you work on the other recovery steps. Worker - Axeman - Granery - Axeman - Barracks - Axeman - Walls - Axeman - Workboat - Catapult - etc. Before you know it, you have a decent sized army.

#2 Select one of your better production cities to crank out units only. Besides a worker, granary, work boats, and barracks, this city shouldn't need any other improvements for a long time.

#3 If you roam around the boards, you'll see many people reference "the happy/happiness cap". Basically, your cities will stop growing once you reach the happineness cap. To combat the happiness cap, you have three options: a) whip the unhappy citizens into something useful, b) hook up or trade for some luxury resources, or c) build some happiness improving buildings.

For example, you don't "need" a temple in a size 2 city since you have plenty of room to grow still. Instead build units.

#4 Learn that some buildings are a waste at certain points of the game. They are considered a waste in terms of hammers spent building it versus the return. Building a library in a low city doesn't make sense. Build units instead.

#5 Select a wonder or two per era that you really want. For example, I love Stonehenge for the added culture to get some board pops in my new cities. Consider these wonders as your guilty pleasure. Eventually, you might realize that you don't even need these wonders. Build units instead.

Following these steps, you'll soon realize that you'll have a huge army sitting there waiting to attack something. Turn them loose. Oh, and a last point, make sure you build a ton of catapults, trebucets, cannons, and artillery.

 

[cracked]

A couple of things I've noticed about the game....

Attack on more than one front. The AI tends to defend one area at the expense of others. realise that 6 knights can beat 3 lonbow if the city has a low cultural or defense value (i.e. no city walls no castle) and is not on hills. You might lose one or two knights but you should be able to take the city. If this seems like suicide, pillage instead. The AI struggles against attacks that are spread out rather than focused on one area. (they might get one stack, but losing 14 units is always better than losing 34 troops when one big stack is countered).

When mounting intercontinental invasions, let your first troops attack at one point, then the second one you use attack at another point. The AI will move lots of troops to ry and defend that area. Even if they keep you from advancing in that area, They'll leave the rest of their nation undefended, meaning the second stack you drop will have a much easier time of it.

During the later periods I'll often go in with three main stacks of attackers (four when attacking intercontinental). e.g. two/three with seven infantry and eight artillery with a stack of 10 cavalry to support flashpoints, with smaller stacks of (three to four) cavalry to draw defenders out of cities by pillaging resources and rip up roads hampering counter-attacks. When warring I'm always building troops to back them up. The cavalry will join the attacking force facing the greatest resistance. As I seize ground, the infantry at first used to defend those cities then move forward. This can allow you to take multiple cities a turn, making it very hard to defend against. Once you've broken the back of their defence, a large stack of cavalry can take cities defended with only small numbers of defending infantry (particularly if you have air support). In short, shock and awe.

Don't always war to invade. Rip and burn policies can leave their economy in tatters, allowing for a tech adavantage in the later game. very effective early game strategy.

 

[cracked]

Under building can be a problem as well. Particularly if a city is well placed to take advantage if a builidng.

I've found planning what you're going to build is helpful, and block building units combined with slavery to whip buildings you'll find useful as you need them.

 

[Codazzle]

Thanks for the responses guys. An update from me:

Am currently playing the Earth 18 Civ's map as the United States, and decided to wage an early war, so I tried to get catipults ASAP. I had the eastern USA while he had Mexico and W USA. Once I had 5 catapults built I attacked. Monty didn't know what hit him!! I managed to wipe him out and take all his cities.

I was at a rather large tech disadvantage until about 1800, when I discovered railroad before everyone else and traded that single tech with about 10 diffrerent civs until I caught up haha.

I'm at year 1900 now, second in score, I'm guessing first in tech. North America is solely mine. Half of South America is also mine (As the Inca still remain.) I should have no trouble winning a space race victory I'm guessing as I have DOUBLE the Manufacturing capacity of my next closest rival and no one is close to any other victory conditions. Might go attack someone just to spice it up once I get a ton of transports haha