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Some ideas.

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Gravage, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. mervvyn

    mervvyn Warlord

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    I was under the impression that was the role of "Sir Not appearing in this Mod", not quite sure in what way though.
     
  2. Kael

    Kael Deity

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    Thats correct. A unit becomes obsolete when you can build all of his upgrades. Since you can never build 'Sir not appearing in this Mod' adding him as an upgrade for a unit means that the unit will never obsolete.
     
  3. Rod

    Rod King

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    You know how loooong it takes to get the first druid ?? That is no option in comparison to the strength of Priest of Leaves. Basically they are giving you +X production, +X food to each city and +1 happiness, + 20 % Culture (tiger cages)

    That is way to much in comparison with Mutation, water walking or divine hammers..

    So please tell me in which way the 'lower' religions are equalized ?
     
  4. Silverkiss

    Silverkiss NekoChan

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    Gold bonus of RoK are superior to the inherit bonus of FoL, the Octopi get a stronger military... They don´t need to be equalized on the same things, else they would be like vanilla religions.
     
  5. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    ya, in no way could anyone call leaves ultimately superior to the other religions, even for ljosalfar its not always the one i want, just the preferred one for synergy
     
  6. Silverkiss

    Silverkiss NekoChan

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    I don´t even think FoL is that great, improvments produce way better yelds than forests... Of couse the forests are good, and they give happiness/health, but I´d rather use resources/culture slider/etc and have bigger yelds from my tiles than use FoL.
     
  7. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    especially with the new agriculture, since elven farms on regular forests lose their production bonus, and its not like ancient forests are gained automatically, and also agriculture competes with guardian of nature, and in the early game agriculture is better for getting your cities to larger sizes and outputting workers and settlers.

    i tend to find that Leaves most effective use is as a transition religion in the mid game for improving your forest tiles, and an end game religion if you can get elven workers/slaves.
     
  8. Nero's fire

    Nero's fire Warlord

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    Harlaquins get sorcery, mind and chaos and you can upgrade them into Druids. This is what Frodo.. I mean MrUnderHill ment when he said retained promotions. I know Maniacs mod makes it so this little tricks can't be exploited (or atleast it allows the comps to exploit them equally) Was the design team planning on fixing this too?

    And as far as the religions go I love how each are different. One thing however I liked from previous versions was how different techs allowed for different mana types to be used. I think it would be neat if getting the way techs allowed a civ to build thier respective nodes (nature for FoL, earth for RoK, and water for UU, ect) I think this would be a really nice flavour add and also allow your first mages to build one mana node type before having to branch out to one of the mana techs.
     
  9. Chandrasekhar

    Chandrasekhar Determined

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    I'm aware of this. I was just saying that instead of the generic tree-huggery druid, they ought to have a UU that reflects their mastery over mind and chaos magic. Of course, the druid itself would then presumably start with mind and chaos. I very much agree with Maniac's modifications there.
     
  10. Rod

    Rod King

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    Ok I got your point and I agree that regarding the other effects the early religions are definitivly not that such different powerwise.

    yes it is true : the combination of slavery, culture boost and resourceless really strong early units making the Octopii a really strong religion ..

    yes, it is true : +1 for all mines, the 'rushing' capabilities of the soldiers of kilmorph and the gold bonus let you manage really big empires and very fast economic advancement.

    Maybe it was just me, that I was upset that the Stonewarden and the Cultist are really bad sorcerers, but only good healers and priest ... maybe this has to be enough.

    Nevertheless I would like to raise another question.

    Would the new tiles : Mountain for RoK and Swamps for Octopii unbalance things or would they be a nice and balanced addition ?
     
  11. Silverkiss

    Silverkiss NekoChan

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    Probably unbalance, as I almost never choose FoL as religion even now, if you made the others stronger....
     
  12. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    new features and plot types would be fun, but fellowship would be in need of a boost
     
  13. eerr

    eerr Emperor

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    mmmm.... not really rofl
     
  14. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    lets look at it simply, are the religions balanced now? id say yes, if anything leaves is only balanced for the circumstance where you can get elven slaves or workers.

    so, if you add bonuses to other religions, then you must counter balance it for leaves as well, quite simple.
     
  15. eerr

    eerr Emperor

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    they get a unique terrain type just like fol had since forever? not that unbalanced-actually, its more balanced when you think about it

    it's also somewhat defensive in nature just like the ancient forests
     
  16. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    alright, so if the other religions get what makes leaves special, then leaves needs what the others have, so 4 strength religious units that can rush build things...
     
  17. Silverkiss

    Silverkiss NekoChan

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    Yea, you are forgetting that FoL doesn´t get Runes´ increased hammer on mines and the gold bonus, or Octopi´s strong units and slavery with culture bonus, etc etc.....
     
  18. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    ya.. personally i like the idea of each religion manifesting itself terrain wise, but if the other religions gain any bonuses, all of them should, so if you add a new feature to OO and Runes then something should be added to leaves.

    not sure what tho
     
  19. eerr

    eerr Emperor

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    leaves is most powerful in that you can convert a 0 use desert into a verdant ancient forest with 3 food and 2 production merely with one unit
    any small terrain bonus will pale in comparison, as food has always been more powerful than gold or production, and elves can get them all free with fol

    (for the synergy, the new terrain would likely be +1 production or gold with a mine and replace hills, and an additional +1 gold for dwarves and be mostly for a defensive bonus)
    (swamps with + 4 gold isn't very efficient)

    rushing buildings with dwarves doesn't give enough production to be useful for anything anyway(4:1 ratio last time i checked)-so the leaves can have it anyway though lol(a tree shapper?)
    in fact, i would dump it anyway if it wouldn't make rushing buildings overlord specific.
     
  20. Silverkiss

    Silverkiss NekoChan

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    Runes or Overlords and Agriculture and Aristocracy = food and gold from farms on grassland, cottage plains for more gold, mine every hills for production. If you have 1 food resource that uses farms, you´re set. Each mine gives 4 or more hammers, and the farms give food for every other tile. The *only* benefict from the FoL Ancient Forests, the food, is payed with agriculture. After that you only have to gain on the tile yelds.
     

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