Some lame ideas of mine for units and improvements...

[Captain Ludd]

Just some thoughts of mine on units/improvements I'd like to use...if someone made the graphics for me

Submersable Aircraft Carrier...
I think I've mentioned this one before...but it's too good to let slide away. Think of the terror in the enemys eyes when he see's planes pop out of the ocean and bomb his cities. Then watch his panic as he tries to track them down. Stats might be something like 6/3/3 with two aircraft hold. Would be available after the first sub but before the nuclear one.

Amphibious Assault Craft...
I know we have the ever-present transport already but I think this might also be an interesting tool to have. Something to load a few untits in and ship them off to any hot-spot. Stats might be 0/2/7 with a transport capicity of 2. They move fast but carry a light load. Perfect for a short hop of a landing...but very vulnerable to getting hit. As a bonus though it would have some firepower in the form of bombardment abilty. Perhaps as powerful as artillary but with a shorter range. The idea being that you pull up with your marines and then open up with the cannon to soften the defenders before the marines actually storm ashore. Available when you get marines I would imagine.


Early Armour...
Think of those lumbering hulks from WWI. They would help bridge the gap between cavelry and Armor as the premier offensive weapon. Given that they might have a short life-span not many may be built before better weapons are available...but if you're knee-deep in struggle then having something with more punch then those guys on horses might be nice (just like in WWI). Stats could be 12/8/1. The squeek their way to the front but at least they have a chance at punching a hole through that nasty line of infantry.


Rocket Forces...
I'm thinking specifically of what the Russians (and everyone else) used in WWII. Large numbers of rockets launched from flat-bed trucks. An alternative to artillery. No offence or defence but a move of 2 (they move fast). Perhaps more powerful then arty but with a shorter range. (and the sound effect would be sooooo cool)


Dirgible...
Quietly patrol the lands. A long range aircraft with only the "observe" ability. Gives you a better idea of what is happening of off your coasts. But don't let them stray near the bad guys...they'd be sitting (and exploding, burning ducks). But since they can spot subs...maybe I'll build one or two.



Slave Plantation...
A controversial one. This improvement would perhaps add to the economy and resource production. Or maybe only one...I'd have to fiddle with it to see. But it would also have a very serious negative culture effect. And if it could be done perhaps it could damage your international reputation as well. The idea is that buildig this gets you something...but at a steep cost.

(as a footnote I'd like to include my complaint that all civ cities basically look alike. 1 temple, 1 library, 1 factory...you get the idea. I wish there was a large selection of improvements...so many that you could never build them all. As it is now...you want them all...and if given enough time you'll have each one. "hmmmm...should I build a slave plantation or a public assembly hall?")

That's it for now. I'm sleepy.


"If a state is governed by the principles of reason, poverty and misery are subjects of shame; if a state is not governed by the principles of reason, riches and honors are the subjects of shame."

 

[Joben]

Zeplins are farily hard to kill at least a lot moreso than you would expect.

Sub-carriers were in SMAC (or was it SMACX?) that is if you had a good city to build it at and a good reserch rate.
haha they were sorta one of those "if your doing good enought to get this you wont need it" units

Slaves...im shure some ppl would freak if they were in the game but...
its historical and this is a historical game. make it balanced and dont glorify it and it would be fine.


Early armor...good idea. i dont aprove of cluttering up Civ3's streamlined
unit list but this is one of the better sugestions.

Common folks pay attention to this post! some decent ideas here.

 

[Blackwatch]

I have to say that I think several of your ideas have real merit and I'd like to add my two cents.

The submersable aircraft carrier -or CVSS/CVSN if you will- is a pretty interesting idea. Reminds me of something you'd see in an old movie serial. The way you have it speced out is interesting as well. Limited capacity off sets the advantage of being invisible. I for one like the Mod which prevents subs from seeing subs but allows destroyer -which are in reality sub killers- to find them. In that light you may lower the attack value and raise the defense value to represent the smaller escourt vessels which are 'there' to protect the CV but not represented by seperate icons.


As to the Amphibious Assault Craft, this is a real world device. In the 80s the Soviets had a 'ship' which looked for all the world like a plane with stubby little wings. It flew just a few feet of the water through the action of something called Ground Effect in which air pressure betneath the vessel kept it off teh ground, but just barely. It was meant to carry Societ Naval Infantry in a rapid deployment role, but it was never a huge success.

Having been an armor officer in the U.S.A., tanks are near and dear to my heart. In my opinion there can never be enough of them in any game. I for one would love to see a bulky treaded monster of the WWI style added to complement the trench warfare look of the infantry.

Rocket Forces...
What you're thinking of here a weapons system called Stalin's Organ: everyone used them, but the Russians had far more of them. The name reffers to the way the racks of rocket lanchers looked like the pipes of a steam organ. They were a cheap alternative to artillery, but they were no more powerful. True, they could put more rounds on target than an artillery piece in the same time, but the artillery rounds were bigger.

Dirgible...
Another one of my favorites in this post. The facist patch adds the dirigible to Civ2, not sure about Civ3 yet. They were used by the US Navy through the second world war, and then dropped for about 40 years. There is a resurgience in their lifesycle at present. New fiber composites and battery technologies have made them into Airbourne C.A.P. control platforms. They are very hard to detect on radar -depending on what you make them from, of course- and make excellent ASW (Anti-Submarine Warfare- platforms. One role suggested in a Navy Times Article is as a airborne control platform that could linger in an area for a prolonged time and direct the deployment of ASW assets like the P3 or the new generation of destroyers and frigates. You could easily provide two generations of this unit: the WW1 unit, and then the later post Stealth unit.

 

[Dark Ryder]

While slavery is indeed a touchy subject, I think it could be done without offending anyone. And since it was a major stumbling block for a lot of real civilizations to overcome, it seems proper to include it in Civ3. What I would suggest is:

1) A small wonder "slavery" (or something more PC) which causes unhappiness.

2) A "forced labor" unit which is identical to a Worked but much less expensive, and requires slavery in order to be built.

3) An "emancipation" great wonder which renders both slavery and forced labor obsolete, and prevents any civ from building them.

Now, I don't have the editor in front of me, so I can't check if this is directly possible, but I believe it could be made to work.

 

[Super Mutant]

Slavery already exsists in the form of capturing enemy workers and razing captured cities.

 

[CD Light]

An idea I've had is an unmanned plane, a drone of sorts. The unit could be enabled by a late-game technology like Smart Weapons and have no weapons but a very long operational range.

EDIT: I just realized Headmaster already did this (D'oh!). But if there are now an air scout and a land scout, why not a water scout? Maybe an unmanned submarine that would be weak but nimble and able to see far.

 

[Captain Ludd]

I always end up here late at night somy thoughts are sometimes half formed. Sorry about that. I'll throw a bit more onto what I had in mind...


Slave plantation...
What I wanted here was a zero-sum improvement. If you need the resource/economic boost then you might be tempted to build it. But then you can kiss political or cultural victory goodbye (but sometimes we enjoy playing bad guys right?). And if your nation is doing okay then you say 'thanks, but no thanks' and wait for (the more ethical) factories.

I see how captured workers look a bit like slaves (they retain their national origin...but does that mean anything in the game?) but there doesn't seem to be any serious consequences to keeping them.

Oh and I like the 'emancipation' wonder idea. Maybe after anyone builds it then all reputation, happiness, cultural penalties are doubled? So a slave holding nation might start to sell of their slave camp improvents of someone else built the 'emancipation wonder'.


Rocket forces...
My beloved Katyusha rockets and their oh so cool sound effect. What I wanted here was something that could keep up with a tank offensive at the cost of a shortend range (as compared to the arty that would also be available in the same time-frame). Maybe you decide to plunder along with infantry and arty with sharp jabs from your tanks. Or maybe you leave the infantry to clean up as you rush forward with tanks and Rocket Forces. It adds a little more variety too the game.

Thanks for listening


"I believe you should live each day as if it is your last, which is why I don't have any clean laundry because, come on, who wants to wash clothes on the last day of their life?"

 

[Bjorn Bjornson]

yeah i like the idea of slavery too, but i dont think it could be put into civ3 effectively like in CTP

also, yer sidenote about making improvements limiting the other improvements, i was thinking, why not make certain cultural improvements require NOT having a "bad' improvement like a slave plantation?

i tried to see if this works - i mean i figured if an improvement can be set to require another improvement, putting a negative value may make it that you cannot build an improvement if a contary improvement is built. alas i found i cant go into the negative on that variable!

and as far as captured workers, they hardly count as slaves as there is no noticeable cultural deterrant for having them. (hell one game half my worker force was foreign, and i was still nearly able to get cultural and diplomatic victories)

now if captured workers would be detrimental to a civ culturally or diplomatically (as in itd be better off giving/selling them back), it would more resemble slavery

i did like civ CTP's slavery system... i never once built a slaver, but it was interesting watching out for enemy slavers, and it was great ****ing with slaving civs with abolitionists and the like.

actually, CTP had many more methods of competing with rivals... i dare say that if CTP looked as good a civ3, i would be playing CTP!

 

[Publius]

I like your ideas on the units, especially the zeppelin as a recon unit. I created something similar in Civ2: a U-2 spy plane, long range, could stay aloft for four turns, zero attack but a moderately high defense to reflect its high altitude.

On the slave plantation, it certainly isn't a moral thing to do, but it is historically accurate (dropping nukes and razing cities isn't very nice either) I was interested by your statement:

Originally posted by Captain Ludd
But it would also have a very serious negative culture effect. And if it could be done perhaps it could damage your international reputation as well. The idea is that buildig this gets you something...but at a steep cost.

I checked the improvements/wonders editor to see if this was possible. I found that under culture effect, I could scroll down to negative numbers. There is also a section for creating happy or unhappy citizens, either in this city or in all cities. I haven't tested it yet, but the options exist. So, whereas a cathedral gives your city 3 culture points per turn and three "happy faces", what if the plantation subtracted 3 culture points per turn, and gave you three "unhappy faces" (or whatever numbers work). Maybe also set a high maintenence cost per turn. I couldn't find an option for it to affect your reputation, though.

I see how captured workers look a bit like slaves (they retain their national origin...but does that mean anything in the game?) but there doesn't seem to be any serious consequences to keeping them.

The obvious negative which you have probably noticed is that foriegn workers are slower at their jobs. And if you have them join a city, the number of foreign nationals in a city has a big effect on culture-flipping.

Also, you know that if you move a worker to your capital, you can trade him to another civ, right? If you trade (or even better give) a foreign worker back to his home country, it makes that other leader happy (I have read that it will help your reputation, too). I have found that this really works well when at war with another civ, and you capture a worker that HE captured from a third party. Repatriate the worker to that third country, and they will love you for it.