Some Modcomps for Tholal's More Naval AI v2.4

[Tholal]

Regarding your Dynamic Civ Names. I think you have a bug in the section that picks the name, though I may be misunderstanding the code.

		for sDsc in lsDescs :
			if( self.isUnused( iPlayer, sNewDesc ) ) :
				print "MODIFIED DCN - Old name: \"%s\", New name: \"%s\"" % ( sDsc, sNewDesc )
				return [sNewDesc, sSrt, sAdj]

You're using the sDsc variable to loop through the options, but then you're checking for sNewDsc on the next line, which is always going to be the same, no matter how many loops you do.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

Events with images merged. Thanks Terkhen! I didn't noticed your graphics bug, however, armageddon messages worked fine.

awesome, thanks guys

does the events with images new DLL include Tholal's beta DLL ?

 

[Tasunke]

Kuriotates: Yes, definitely

Spoiler :

I believe the Dragon-child was born either right before the age of rebirth or soon thereafter.

Hippus: why not. While the hippus existed before the Fall, no reason to think they wouldn't go barb. (and then back again)

Spoiler :

(unlike the Bannor who went to hell, or the Illians who worshipped their god, or the Elohim who remained vigilant in keeping to the old ways, and keeping the old knowledge, or the Amurites that formed during the Age of Ice)

Lanun: Same as hippus, Might need to check if its a coastal city though.

Spoiler :

(after all some modmods even have pirates as a separate barb type). Also, coastal/ and/or pirate barb type, cities should be more likely to convert to the barb-lanun cause. (I assume these checks happen within the first few turns of the Lanun spawning, ie Rhyes and Fall?)

----> Either that ... or maybe when these civs appear they should take nearby barb cities with them (if of similar type). After all ... a lanun city surrounded by pirate cities seems lame ... make em all lanun if one flips. (or at least the ones adjacent to the flipping city)

Sheaim: Yes

Malakim: Yes

Doviello: Yes

Spoiler :

In the lore, the doviello were a broken people after Mulcarn died. Only instead of mourning their god's death and drifting into seclusion as the Illians did, they went back to their more barbarian ways. Many Doviello tribes, usually fighting amongst each other, during the age of rebirth. One such tribe managed to resurrect Charadon (a tribe that, at the time, was led by Mahala). He quickly took over, and led that one tribe to unite others in (re)forging a nation. Charadon was one of the greats of the Doviello during the age of the ice iirc.

Calabim: Yes

Balseraphs: Yes

Khazad: Sure, if dwarven barbarians (even if not fully supported by the lore, would be fun to have dwarven barbarians)

Luchuirp: Sure, if dwarven barbarians

Clan of Embers: Sure, from Orc barbarians only ... but then, the only civ that can arise from orc barbarians as well.

Bannor: No
Illians: No
Elohim: No
Amurites: No
Sidar: No
Grigori: No

Spoiler :

Cassiel came down to help humans early on in the Age of Magic, iirc, and he hasn't left since. That being said, they didn't exactly make a big name for themselves during the age of magic either. Still, they wouldn't have turned barbarian as long as they had an immortal archangel to lead them.

Ljosalphar: No
Svartalphar: No

Infernals: ofc not
Mercurians: ofc not

 

[lfgr]

Regarding your Dynamic Civ Names. I think you have a bug in the section that picks the name, though I may be misunderstanding the code.

		for sDsc in lsDescs :
			if( self.isUnused( iPlayer, sNewDesc ) ) :
				print "MODIFIED DCN - Old name: \"%s\", New name: \"%s\"" % ( sDsc, sNewDesc )
				return [sNewDesc, sSrt, sAdj]

You're using the sDsc variable to loop through the options, but then you're checking for sNewDsc on the next line, which is always going to be the same, no matter how many loops you do.

Yeah, sNewDesc should be changed to sDsc in these lines. Thanks!

awesome, thanks guys

does the events with images new DLL include Tholal's beta DLL ?

Currently not; I think I will merge it soon (will post here then)

 

[Tasunke]

In total, you could have 2 or 3 barbarian types.

Humans (possibly include pirates in that, if coastal city)

Orcs (what we have now)

Dwarves


of Humans, typically Doviello art-type. Can have 8 civs arise.

of Orcs, only one. But I suppose both leaders could arise separately. They don't exactly work together.

of Dwarves, two civs could arise. The two khazad leaders I could see arising separately. They didn't exactly get along, at least for the first 50 years of rebirth.

 

[lfgr]

Thank you very much for the feedback! I have updated the first post and incorporated some of your suggestions.

Khazad: Sure, if dwarven barbarians (even if not fully supported by the lore, would be fun to have dwarven barbarians)

Luchuirp: Sure, if dwarven barbarians

Ljosalphar: No
Svartalphar: No

Why dwarves and not elves?

Sidar: No

Why? (Don't know much about their backstory... did they form in the age of magic?)

 

[Tasunke]

Thing is, iirc the Elves never died off as a civilization, went into hiding, etc ... they just survived through the Winter with Faeryl Viconia as Queen of the Winter court. Then when summer came, the Summer Queen took over again, and, jealous, Faeryl tried to kill her (iirc), and failing that, she fled with her court to form the Svartalphar.

So ... I guess, I suppose, you could have elven barbs become Svart, but I'd much rather have the rebels of one become the other.

As for the Sidar ... iirc they were formed after Sandalphon stole the books of Laroth, and I don't think that could have happened until after Auric Ulven escaped the Shadowed Vale with the help of Varn Gosam. (Auric was a boy at the time).

I think the Shadowed Vale eventually became the lair of the Sidar, after it was joined with creation and the shadow elves were blinded (not sure if the mist left the vale or not, but if it did I think Sandalphon returned it somehow using the books ... but it probably remained even if the darkness left.)

Anyways, most of this happened at the beginning of the age of Rebirth iirc, but ... hmm ... well, I guess the Sidar could spawn from Barbarians ... but ... its just a different situation. As long as you take the lore into account. Its just that they are magical beings, the whole race is bound by the books of Laroth. Rather than being barbarians led by a Charismatic leader.

 

[Hightower]

Thing is, iirc the Elves never died off as a civilization, went into hiding, etc ... they just survived through the Winter with Faeryl Viconia as Queen of the Winter court. Then when summer came, the Summer Queen took over again, and, jealous, Faeryl tried to kill her (iirc), and failing that, she fled with her court to form the Svartalphar.

That's incorrect. It's true that Faeryl Viconia stayed Queen as the Age of Ice began. She declared Esus the new god of the Elves and began to persecute those who still worshipped Sucellus. The Sucellus followers, represented by the Seelie court, fought back, creating a civil war within the Elves between the Seelie and Unseelie courts. The Seelie Court is actually the one that presumably seceded under Arendel Phaedra's leadership, if we're strict about political continuity. This all happened before the Age of Ice was really "deep" (and possibly before Sucellus's death); the war ended as the environment got too cold for the courts to continue their war.

See: http://fallfromheaven.wikia.com/wiki/Svartalfar

 

[Tasunke]

you are correct.

Fact still remains, however, that the elven kingdoms current leaders were well in position before the age of rebirth (and even the age of ice)

whereas Kandros Fir and Arcturus thorne didn't come to power until after the age of ice, and therefore, theoretically, could have come to lead barbarian dwarves as well ... as they only left with their clansmen (not the whole race) they could have well united with outsider Dwarves to help forge their kingdom. (Source: Civilopedia of Kandros Fir, Khazad Leader)

 

[Terkhen]

I have been reviewing the More Events modcomp a bit. In my opinion, the Orc Slaying promotion is a huge nerf to the clan of embers, specially because it is available quite early. IMO it should not be made available to all units. I think that I found some issues with some events but I don't remember which ones; I'll come back with more feedback after testing.

 

[Tasunke]

perhaps orc slaying should only be made available to melee units?

-> doesn't necessarily make sense for a priest or a crusader to particularly hate orcs

-> orcs aren't really beasts per se, so recon doesn't quite fit either

-> Orcs have the powerful Ogre unit, in the melee line, so its a nice melee vs melee counter, I suppose.


I would suggest disciple only for demon and undead slaying ... but I don't wish to nerf those age-old promotions

 

[Terkhen]

A friend has told me about a possible issue with More Events Expanded.

When the third option ("Interesting... lets move the grave and set up a tourist attraction. Just to ease the villagers fears, of course.") is chosen in the ancient burial event and the event takes place in a hill, the hill gets flattened to a normal plot. Although it seems that this is intended by checking the description of the event option chosen (the tomb is moved), IMO it does not make sense since civilizations are usually not able to flatten hills.

The code causing this issue is present at the doAncientBurial3 method in python/entrypoints/CvRandomEventInterface.py.

 

[lfgr]

Thanks; I remember I found this odd, too, when I was playing RifE some time ago.

Many Events from More Events Expanded are a bit "messy" (One gives you a Prior for 150 Gold, with only the restrictions that Hyborem exists and Armageddon Counter is above 35), I'm currently going through and tweaking.
Also, I expanded the Event XML a bit (More in next release, probably next weekend).

EDIT: Maybe including your ExtraModMod changes, too.

 

[Terkhen]

I also think that the golem creator event seems to be very frequent, and maybe happens a bit early. Getting a flesh golem before rushing time as Doviello (specially when you can pass Empower promotions to it from your wolves) can turn the game in your favor really quick. I think that it is a cool event, but it should be a bit less frequent and maybe happen later in the game.

My changes to More events are kept in a separate patch, just to make it simpler to update if the modcomp was updated. I merely modified two events that happen with an annoying frequency and removed the orc slayer promotion from general usage.

 

[Tasunke]

In Magister's Modmod, Orc Slaying, Elf Slaying, Dwarf Slaying, and Angel Slaying are available at Malevolent Designs

 

[A Moon]

Is there a "Human slaying" promotion?

 

[Calavente]

I was thinking about Barbcivs..

and I kinda disagree.. most civs can be "created" way after turn 1.... even the bannor.

instead of saying that their civ is "created", just say that it is recognized as a civilization.
you might say that the creation of a barb civ... is only a symbol that the different wagrants of a same obedience unit... all their clans unit into a political force. This might take more time or not.
Or even, if you want you could say that their 'creation' is in fact the moment when explorers realise that they missed some information.

why couldn't the bannor get out of hell some few 100-200 turns after the other civs ?
so :
"The descendants of the Empire of Patria emerged from Hell near the city of Schlimk and convinced it's inhabitants to join them into creating the new realm of the Bannor".
or:
"Explorers have discovered that the inhabitants of the city of Shlimck are in fact the descendants of the Empire of Patria, gone too hell and back, they call themselves the Bannor".


Illians can rise : remember that Mulcarn the winter god was killed...
"XXXX united the wanderers of the far north under the name of Illians... our explorers says that they want to bring Mulcarn back"


lanun can be coast-dweller... and a leader assemble them.

sidar .... well, difficult. however, that one can easily be turned around into "our explorer discovered that the so-called barbarians of Brilinc where in fact much more civilized than what we thought. Our explorers explain their inability to see such fact by the Sidar messing with their minds"

...etc

my 0.2

 

[Tasunke]

I suppose. But then, at least in the case of the Sidar (and perhaps the bannor) shouldn't the new civ be granted some bonuses?

For the Bannor, Probably 1 Great Bard for culture popping, and 2 Great prophets. Perhaps 10 Axemen, a Great merchant, and an extra settler.

---> Best case, number of Great Prophets and military units dependent on tech level and game-turn. However this isn't the case for Hyborem/Basium yet so ... why should this be any different?

For the Sidar, probably all techs of either the most or 2nd most advanced civ. Just the one city, but give the AI 5 Wanes to do with as they please. Possibly start the city with an Academy. 'Maybe' 2 archers and a Divided Souls. If u wanted to add any units here.

 

[Tasunke]

Human nomad

Calabim
Malakim
(Elohim)
Sheaim

(Sheaim started out as a cult in the desert. I do not remember however, if their capital remains in a desert area or not. Ashen Veil, like Vampires, was highly secretive cult for many, many years ... only openly expressed in openly evil empires, and only then once the empire felt strong enough to reveal this truth/atrocity.)

These are all desert tribes, with, imho, equal chances of arising out of the desert. These nations should be more likely to arise from a Human nomad than a temperate nomad, and (except for Calabim) impossible to arise from a Winterborn tribe.

------------

If you want to add some more nations (like Kuriotates, which could probably arise from ANY area, ESPECIALLY winterborn imho ...) you are free to do so. But these 4 should NEVER arise from Winterborn, and be the most likely to result from Nomad/desert.

-------------

I would say that Calabim and Elohim, of these 4, would also be quite likely to arise from temperate humans, but not Malakim or Sheaim. I mean, all 4 are desert tribes yes, but the Malakim and the Sheaim specifically start in the desert during the Age of Rebirth. Meaning ... that they never started anywhere else. Malakim and Sheaim, if being formed or discovered during the age of rebirth, would 7 out of 10 times be found in the desert. Elohim and Calabim are a bit trickier, especially the Calabim. The Calabim (or at least the 2 children of Os-Gabella: Alexis and Flauros) have a habit of abandoning civilizations and taking over new tribes of humans. Calabim could equally be any terrain type (similar, actually, to the Balseraphs and Kuriotates in that regard). That being said, during the Age of Rebirth it is documented that they are indeed leading a desert tribe during this time, therefore I think their odds of desert should be higher than what would be considered 'normal'.

 

[lfgr]

I also think that the golem creator event seems to be very frequent, and maybe happens a bit early. Getting a flesh golem before rushing time as Doviello (specially when you can pass Empower promotions to it from your wolves) can turn the game in your favor really quick. I think that it is a cool event, but it should be a bit less frequent and maybe happen later in the game.

Had exactly the same thought . In the next version, it has reduced chance and requires sorcery (You get Flesh Golem from Body III, so it's still two tech-tiers earlier then normal (Strength of Will)).

and removed the orc slayer promotion from general usage.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why do that?

instead of saying that their civ is "created", just say that it is recognized as a civilization.
you might say that the creation of a barb civ... is only a symbol that the different wagrants of a same obedience unit... all their clans unit into a political force. This might take more time or not.
Or even, if you want you could say that their 'creation' is in fact the moment when explorers realise that they missed some information.

why couldn't the bannor get out of hell some few 100-200 turns after the other civs ?
so :
"The descendants of the Empire of Patria emerged from Hell near the city of Schlimk and convinced it's inhabitants to join them into creating the new realm of the Bannor".
or:
"Explorers have discovered that the inhabitants of the city of Shlimck are in fact the descendants of the Empire of Patria, gone too hell and back, they call themselves the Bannor".


Illians can rise : remember that Mulcarn the winter god was killed...
"XXXX united the wanderers of the far north under the name of Illians... our explorers says that they want to bring Mulcarn back"


lanun can be coast-dweller... and a leader assemble them.

sidar .... well, difficult. however, that one can easily be turned around into "our explorer discovered that the so-called barbarians of Brilinc where in fact much more civilized than what we thought. Our explorers explain their inability to see such fact by the Sidar messing with their minds"

You're right, as I said: "I think a good criterium whether to include a civ is the possibility to create an announcement text (see below for some examples), that does not interfere with at least that parts of the FfH lore, that are actually in the game."

I personally don't really like that "realize cilivilization" concept (Bannor Announcement 2, Sidar Announcement). It sounds a bit... meager (I hope you get what I mean).

The first Bannor and the Illian Announcement sound really good to me.

I suppose. But then, at least in the case of the Sidar (and perhaps the bannor) shouldn't the new civ be granted some bonuses?

For the Bannor, Probably 1 Great Bard for culture popping, and 2 Great prophets. Perhaps 10 Axemen, a Great merchant, and an extra settler.

---> Best case, number of Great Prophets and military units dependent on tech level and game-turn. However this isn't the case for Hyborem/Basium yet so ... why should this be any different?

For the Sidar, probably all techs of either the most or 2nd most advanced civ. Just the one city, but give the AI 5 Wanes to do with as they please. Possibly start the city with an Academy. 'Maybe' 2 archers and a Divided Souls. If u wanted to add any units here.

Vanilla BarbCivs grants many (tech-scaling) boni to emerging BarbarianCivs; espacially there is a "military-type" barbarianCiv Emerging that is strong enough to wipe out nearby civs. That could be altered for different civilizations, of course.

Human nomad

Calabim
Malakim
(Elohim)
Sheaim

(Sheaim started out as a cult in the desert. I do not remember however, if their capital remains in a desert area or not. Ashen Veil, like Vampires, was highly secretive cult for many, many years ... only openly expressed in openly evil empires, and only then once the empire felt strong enough to reveal this truth/atrocity.)

These are all desert tribes, with, imho, equal chances of arising out of the desert. These nations should be more likely to arise from a Human nomad than a temperate nomad, and (except for (Elohim)) impossible to arise from a Winterborn tribe (except for the Calabim).

------------

If you want to add some more nations (like Kuriotates, which could probably arise from ANY area, ESPECIALLY winterborn imho ...) you are free to do so. But these 4 should NEVER arise from Winterborn, and be the most likely to result from Nomad/desert.

-------------

I would say that Calabim and Elohim, of these 4, would also be quite likely to arise from temperate humans, but not Malakim or Sheaim. I mean, all 4 are desert tribes yes, but the Malakim and the Sheaim specifically start in the desert during the Age of Rebirth. Meaning ... that they never started anywhere else. Malakim and Sheaim, if being formed or discovered during the age of rebirth, would 7 out of 10 times be found in the desert. Elohim and Calabim are a bit trickier, especially the Calabim. The Calabim (or at least the 2 children of Os-Gabella: Alexis and Flauros) have a habit of abandoning civilizations and taking over new tribes of humans. Calabim could equally be any terrain type (similar, actually, to the Balseraphs and Kuriotates in that regard). That being said, during the Age of Rebirth it is documented that they are indeed leading a desert tribe during this time, therefore I think their odds of desert should be higher than what would be considered 'normal'.

I will include your suggestions (Have no clue about the backstory of this civilizations).
Given my impression of the Kuriotates, I would imagine them to start in more fertile lands (Additionally, in the desert the 3rd city ring is much less usable).

EDIT: Regarding the progress: first, thank you for all that feedback. I hop I'll collect some more and then start to work on it after going through the MoreEvents modcomp.