Some Simple Tips for your First Games of Humankind.

[Victoria]

Zhou (Chinese) are Aesthete, which should be all about Influence, but in fact, they are all about Stability and Science.

Just pointing out that each pop give 2 influence which is the food of aesthetes. That halves to 1 per pop when stability drops to 90%. There is a time when you have built your districts and attached zones and influence starts dropping. That positive influence over 2 zones from the Zhou is worth 3 districts.

having your 2nd city up and running by turn 17

That is a hard ask at 160 influence for a second city. I certainly can be done but how do you do it consistently? And also I take it you do not outpost other zones or attach them to your capital before this?

If you are fat in Influence, think about delaying attaching Outposts until you have placed every Extractor you can in that region

And delay a second city further? The stability is great, the papyrus may be perfect, the horses superb, but better than a second city?I bow to your much higher experience, but am intrigued which is the right way to go.

Districts are underwhelming in the early game... attaching territories is a much better use of Stability (20-25 FI and no production cost vs. maybe 5-6 extra yield from a district).

attaching is -20 stability which does not hurt your capital at first because it has an extra 50 stability but attaching moar is a law of diminishing returns mathematically right? I mean attaching 1 territory changes the build time from 8-4 turns which is great but attaching another for not so much return and delaying a second city more for it?

At first I bought every Civic that came up but now that they're very expensive I'm wishing I had been more pick

buying civics you do not need is losing the early game, you use influence to buy civics and you need influence to build outposts and attach. Of course civics that reduce influence costs or increase influence do seem to be the main no brainer but dedicating yourself to a civic you do not need not only kills influence but pushes your ‘personality’ is a way that may not suit your neighbours.

It just seems influence is the real early game currency that matters little later so am really interested in decisions and why, I have no answer really, just knowledge and questions.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

. . . And delay a second city further? The stability is great, the papyrus may be perfect, the horses superb, but better than a second city?I bow to your much higher experience, but am intrigued which is the right way to go..

IF you have a Trading partner - and as soon as I introduce myself, the first thing I always ask is to "Trade Luxuries" and almost always get a positive answer - then every Luxury resource exploited and traded gives you Money, Stability, and another bonus of some kind. To get the same return from a new City usually requires either a magnificent initial Main Plaza site or building something in or attached to the city. For the 160 Influence required for the 2nd city, you can usually get at least 4 Luxuries almost instantly with all their bonuses. If you haven't met anybody yet, then Luxuries are 'nice to have' but not really essential early on and a 2nd city is the way to go to get a head start on long-term growth.

. . . It just seems influence is the real early game currency that matters little later so am really interested in decisions and why, I have no answer really, just knowledge and questions.

Because, barring fighting for your life against Hordes of Hittites or an Aggravation of Assyrians, initial Expansion of regions, outposts, cities, etc is the prime consideration early in the game, then Influence becomes all-important prime limiting factor on how fast you can do any of that. Until Humankind addresses the now-non-existant "Wide versus Tall" (virtually all the Fame Stars are better achieved with bigger Empires - staying Small means Losing the Game, at least for now) that's not likely to change, so any initial strategy has to include some way to boost Influence.

Luckily, there is some recognition of that in the game design: the only Infrastructure that doesn't require any Technology and so is available the instant you build your first city is the Pottery Workshop that gives +2 Influence. Also, the Assyrian and Egyptian Emblematic Quarters provide Influence for Factions that are not Aesthete - it seems there are always multiple ways to 'solve' problems in the game beyond simply picking the Faction that supposedly specializes in what you need at the moment . . .

 

[Victoria]

barring fighting for your life against Hordes of Hittites

just started a new game on civ level, and had the hittites next to me (again) so went Olmec for a change as they has already attacked my tribesmen. The moment I turned, they said hey, how about we trade?
I do like a race that can pull that off, shame you can only influence your own regions.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

just started a new game on civ level, and had the hittites next to me (again) so went Olmec for a change as they has already attacked my tribesmen. The moment I turned, they said hey, how about we trade?
I do like a race that can pull that off, shame you can only influence your own regions.

I am thoroughly convinced by now that the AI's motto in the Neolithic/Ancient Ages is:

"It's a Good Day to kill someone."

Unless you have a firm Non-Aggression Pact, any slight advantage: higher ground, Harappan Runner versus your Scout, Mycenean Promachoi against anybody - they will attack as a First Choice.

- And then ask to trade! I can see why they didn't go with named leaders in this game, because the expression of bland, bald-faced effrontery on every early Leader's face would be really hard to take after a very short while . . .

 

[Victoria]

"It's a Good Day to kill someone

Sorry, it was the Mycaneans, on the very next turn they settled right next to me!.... so I said hey, you cannot do that... and they said, terribly sorry young lady, please have our outpost next to our border as recompense. So who says its all about killing at higher level?

Spoiler :

 

[Ornen]

So early game 'resources' (GPS or whatever) – this seems like the approx importance in the neolithic & ancient levels (and to some extent, Classical, though that's where these priorities start to shift):

Top: food, influence, stability
Next: production, money, science
After: everything else

Like I said, I'm new so I could be wrong. But you need food for armies, influence for territory, and stability for districts. If we're going by those terms, we'd generate a loose Ancient tier list as follows (this is very napkin math, and isn't counting specific bonuses – on the right terrain, I think Zhou are downright amazing)

Harappans: food, food, and more food
Olmecs: food, influence

Babylon: food, science
Mycenaeans: stability, production
Zhou: stability, science

Egypt: industry, industry, teensy bit of influence
Nubians: industry, money
Phoenicians: money money

Not ready to judge Hittites and Assyrians yet, as I haven't gone hard on early war. And again, it's a very loose list so far.

I'm really eager to try Mycenaeans. I wasn't drawn to them right away, but adding 6 hexes of industry, 15 stability, and defensive bonuses looks pretty damn great.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Sorry, it was the Mycaneans, on the very next turn they settled right next to me!.... so I said hey, you cannot do that... and they said, terribly sorry young lady, please have our outpost next to our border as recompense. So who says its all about killing at higher level?

Spoiler :

View attachment 606536

Later in the game, in my experience around the mid-Classical and later when I have a decent little Faction going, it is possible to get some amazing deals from the AI Factions - Outposts, Money payments, lucrative treaties - but I have not generally had them be very generous earlier. Maybe I just had to get their attention first.
The other side of that was a game just before release using one of the last Test Builds, in which in the Medieval Age I made contact with Mongols who had just taken over their entire continent and were sailing several large armies of Horse Archers in my direction. They declared war on me, and I immediately Surrendered. Now, I was playing a relatively Non-Violent Game: Harappans in Ancient, Aksumites in Classical, so I had big cities and lots of cash on hand, had just taken Teutons for a Money bonus per Population, but just the Horse Archers I could see outnumbered my entire army, so fighting did not promise a desirable outcome. Paid them about 4000 Money (earned it all back in about 10 Turns), and they turned totally friendly - established some nice Trade Routes, left me alone after that. It was the best kind of diplomacy - once bought, they stayed bought!

 

[fortydayweekend]

Sorry, it was the Mycaneans, on the very next turn they settled right next to me!.... so I said hey, you cannot do that... and they said, terribly sorry young lady, please have our outpost next to our border as recompense. So who says its all about killing at higher level?

I figure early war is inevitable (and beneficial) so I've tried being very aggressive with one neighbour (making demands and rejecting theirs) and peaceful with another (buying non-agg pact and renouncing all grievances).

Mixed results from demanding outposts - probably 50/50 they give it or reject/declare war. That's on HK level with me being stronger, but they usually have higher war support.

Free outposts are great - and the free city you can get from the war saves 500 influence! As long as you are preparing from the start and fight on favourable terrain it makes for a strong start.

 

[NombreyApellido]

That is a hard ask at 160 influence for a second city. I certainly can be done but how do you do it consistently? And also I take it you do not outpost other zones or attach them to your capital before this?

This was way back in the open devs, it's now deprecated mostly because cities are now instantly built through INF

I don't really think it's far off now with a jump by turn 12 though if you camp at sanctuaries to prey on mammoths during neo

 

[fortydayweekend]

attaching is -20 stability which does not hurt your capital at first because it has an extra 50 stability but attaching moar is a law of diminishing returns mathematically right? I mean attaching 1 territory changes the build time from 8-4 turns which is great but attaching another for not so much return and delaying a second city more for it?

I think I wrote that after only a couple of games, I think I was Zhou and must have felt like I had a surplus of influence. Obviously you should attach whenever you can, and build as many districts as your stability can handle - it's not the either/or choice I made it sound like.

I think the right order in general is city-attach-2nd city-attaching/outposts-capture 3rd city.

The attach territories vs. claim more outposts tradeoff is interesting too. Currently I'm only claiming vital border outposts early on (e.g. +X yield lux/horse/copper on good land on the border), and trying to save up for attaching. But there's the Civic with 50% claim / 20% attach discounts to consider too. The best timing isn't obvious and hopefully it's also very situational.

Does leaving a territory unclaimed make it more likely to spawn an independent? That would be a really good argument for leaving some backfill territories unclaimed for a free city later on.

 

[NombreyApellido]

I think the right order in general is city-attach-2nd city-attaching/outposts-capture 3rd city.

agreed. i'd add claim a wonder, stonehenge or giza depending on availability

i aim to capture every grey city. if it's built on a good location and it has extractors i may keep it or liberate it. otherwise, up it goes in flames for the ransack money (and population if civic is selected)

 

[fortydayweekend]

agreed. i'd add claim a wonder, stonehenge or giza depending on availability

Oh yeah that's another good question. I can't think of any circumstance that I'd delay 2nd city for a wonder but after that?

Wonder is 250 influence - that's an attachment and a couple of outposts?? (I can't remember exact costs). That's a lot of foregone production/influence/science and possibly resources... even before building it. Are they actually that good? My instinct is that they're not worth claiming until attachment costs are 500+.

i aim to capture every grey city. if it's built on a good location and it has extractors i may keep it or liberate it. otherwise, up it goes in flames for the ransack money (and population if civic is selected)

Yep, and it's way too easy and valuable. Needs nerfing (e.g. same influence cost as founding a city either as one-off or a status e.g. -50inf/turn for 10 turns).

 

[NombreyApellido]

remember, wonders do 7 hex and every kind of tile. if placed in prime location, they're a monster on their own and before the bonuses they include

they've lost some weight due to stability having less relevance now, but they remain very important IMO. an alternative is of course wait for another faction to build it (or plant it) and then take if from them