Some thoughts on walls..

[obsolete]

I know everyone like to laugh at stone walls, so as a rule I never really build them unless I really have nothing to do... that being said, because of this I'm not too familiar with their issues.

For example, IIRC, cultural defense is NOT cumulative with city walls? So that +50% vs non gunpowder units is wasted if your cultural is above 50%.

And while cultural defence can be broken down, so can stone walls? It has been a while since I built them but IIRC back on the vanilla CD I don't think I ever had to REBUILD a stone wall, which would lead me to think their effects were permanent.

I'm also not TOO familiar with all the latest patching.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

Walls are a giood way to get your defenses to 50% quickly, and are required to build Castles or Citadels(Spanish).

Walls will repair themselves over time just like cultural defenses.

I generally only build Walls on the way to castles with big coastal cities which have good trade route income as the castle will give you an extra trade route. But it's a short gap between Enigineering(required to build castles) and Economics(obsolete castles).

 

[Jerrymander]

Walls are useful for culture-low of culture-less cities, especially frontier/border cities.

I think, in Warlords, that they provide a lower collateral damage rating?

Also, the 50% is not cumulative - and it can be bombarded down to 0%.
Castles go great with walls, because they lower collateral damage effects, too.

 

[obsolete]

Hmm, I also noticed castles just obsolete so fast that It almost isnt' worth it either. I admit in an emergency I'll whip walls when caught with my pants down, but I guess another issue is, how fast will the walls re-generate in comparison to the culture defence regenerate. I guess that's one area I should also focus on.

At least I know now walls don't truely get destroyed, they just re-heal from 0.

 

[InFlux5]

I think they add to your power rating but I've never noticed.

 

[Phrederick]

They do add to your power graph, I saw that on a strategy article here. Also, in Warlords they slow down bombardment, giving you time to reinforce the city. I mainly use them when building a city and expect an invasion near there, when I think it might come before I reach 40% culture. In the early game, I often only have 2-3 culture/turn in a border city, so if I'm next to Monty/etc, I'll build a wall there. Also useful when the city is isolated so it would be hard to bring reinforcements, or when capturing a city without a decisive power advantage, so it's possible to be counterattacked.

All that said, I rarely build more than one or two in a game. I prefer to attack invaders before they can attack my cities, to prevent pillaging, and because it's best to stay on offense.

 

[Killroyan]

There should be really stuff to improve walls and castles. I noticed that it is harder to break down walls and castles when bombarding but still it is just a case of bringing enough siege to the fight to overcome that problem. It would be great if the defense of a castle and walls could never be completely removed. Just to say so that even after bombarding there will always be 20% city defense and you can still bombard them to 50% hp.

And I really hate it that the trade routes go obsolete when economics come in. Way too soon. I would build castles like mad if the trade routes would stay.

 

[Charou]

And I really hate it that the trade routes go obsolete when economics come in. Way too soon. I would build castles like mad if the trade routes would stay.

Well then you can bypass economics till you need assembly line.
Anyway the civic isn't so great (kind of overkill when you have large empire) and the AIs stick top mercantilism for a while.

I do that when I have spanish citadels and want to pop killer cannons or machine guns.

 

[cabert]

Walls are a giood way to get your defenses to 50% quickly, and are required to build Castles or Citadels(Spanish).

Walls will repair themselves over time just like cultural defenses.

I generally only build Walls on the way to castles with big coastal cities which have good trade route income as the castle will give you an extra trade route. But it's a short gap between Enigineering(required to build castles) and Economics(obsolete castles).

so do I.
When I manage temple of artemis (build or capture), I try to go for the great lighthouse and a castle

 

[SnowlyWhite]

only when I have stone and want overflow cash...

castle would be nice, if they wouldn't obsolete so early(if I aint' done by then, I usually like to beeline to assembly line which imho is a key tech - factory/upgrade of my ex cr3 maces/grenadies to infantry... even pentagon so economics comes rather early, that if I'm not in such a good position to beeline economics too for the gm).

 

[obsolete]

As for power rating, in one monarch game last week, I had 0 troops. Let me refrase this, my only warrior I had, got killed by a lion.

Yet, sometime after 0 BC, I still had 0 units (though Great wall), and I noticed I was only between 1/3 and 1/4 from the bottom on the POWER graph. Very puzzling, as you'd THINK with absolutely NO UNITS, that your power should be zero. So obviously buildings and tech make up a substantial amount of power in the equation. More so than I thought.

I noticed though it doesn't seem to count gold, which is a flaw. Because many times I'll be in the very late Modern age and all my units willl still be Prats. Then in one turn I"ll upgrade 30 of them to Mechanize infantry, then POOF you'll see the power spike.

I do remember reading a long time ago about this sort of exploit. To BAIT an AI into attacking you when normally it wouldn't be so foolish. Then POOF you kill it with 0 penalty to its allies.

 

[cabert]

As for power rating, in one monarch game last week, I had 0 troops. Let me refrase this, my only warrior I had, got killed by a lion.

Yet, sometime after 0 BC, I still had 0 units (though Great wall), and I noticed I was only between 1/3 and 1/4 from the bottom on the POWER graph. Very puzzling, as you'd THINK with absolutely NO UNITS, that your power should be zero. So obviously buildings and tech make up a substantial amount of power in the equation. More so than I thought.

the biggest part of power in my games is population.
I only build units when I'm getting ready to use them (which is rather often according to Kmad and Pigswill in another thread ).
Even with no tech and no building, your population counts as power.
This is why I try to conquer a good deal of cities early enough, it deters the AI from attacking you .

I noticed though it doesn't seem to count gold, which is a flaw. Because many times I'll be in the very late Modern age and all my units willl still be Prats. Then in one turn I"ll upgrade 30 of them to Mechanize infantry, then POOF you'll see the power spike.

I do remember reading a long time ago about this sort of exploit. To BAIT an AI into attacking you when normally it wouldn't be so foolish. Then POOF you kill it with 0 penalty to its allies.

the bait doesn't work too well.
Another bait which doesn't work 100% is to "almost empty" a border city.
put you units 2 tiles away from it (with roads, you still can be there in time to attack a stack that comes near your city) and let them see how weakly defended your city is.

 

[r_rolo1]

Ther's another "bait" ( again not 100% effective) : leave a border iron mine unguarded. AI tend to believe ( IMHO , no code proof) that if you can't guard strategic resourses, than you're weak....

 

[cabert]

Ther's another "bait" ( again not 100% effective) : leave a border iron mine unguarded. AI tend to believe ( IMHO , no code proof) that if you can't guard strategic resourses, than you're weak....

I don't believe this is true.
I mean I never (NEVER, not once in while, absolutely never) guard mines, including border ones and it's still pretty rare that I get declared on.
Maybe it would be even more rare if I guarded my mines .

 

[frob2900]

Yet, sometime after 0 BC, I still had 0 units (though Great wall), and I noticed I was only between 1/3 and 1/4 from the bottom on the POWER graph. Very puzzling, as you'd THINK with absolutely NO UNITS, that your power should be zero. So obviously buildings and tech make up a substantial amount of power in the equation. More so than I thought.

No units?? You must have had a lot of happiness resources.

 

[obsolete]

Representation baby...

 

[Via]

Today, I was attacked by Elizabeth very early (got 2 cities) in a situation with unguarded copper mine on the border with her. Note: I stole it from her by culture from Stonehenge before.

 

[InFlux5]

I think stealing land through culture was probably the provocation there - that and/or having close borders.

 

[vale]

Best use of walls is to generate lots of gold via overflow when protective with access to stone.

As far as increasing my power graph goes, I like to do that the old fashioned way (i.e. by building tons of units).

 

[cabert]

Best use of walls is to generate lots of gold via overflow when protective with access to stone.

As far as increasing my power graph goes, I like to do that the old fashioned way (i.e. by building tons of units).

I like to increase my power graph by having lots of large cities. Units can flow from the cities, then conquer new cities to further enhance my power .