Some useless feedback

[Funak]

Been thinking about a few things and I figured I might aswell write a new thread for them rather than clog up some existing thread with them.


1. There is only one tech between the Caravel and the Corvette, something that makes the unique Caravel, the Nau, pretty depressing among other things. On the other hand there are 4 techs between the Galleas and the Frigate.

2. The Ironclad requiring coal gives you a period when you're not able to build any ships without strategic resources. I'd suggest either removing the requirement or push back the corvette obsolation.

3. Too many of the last tier units use aluminium, consider changing some of them to something else. On a different note, oil is only used for one era before going obsolete, kinda interesting

4. Some of the baseunits that were moved back in the tree got some kinda weird sideeffects from it. It is possible(and honestly quite reasonable) to reach musketmen without first getting the ability to build pikement, leaving you unable to actually upgrade your units to musketmen
The composite bowman feels pretty weak for how late it is available, one more tech and you have units that almost double its RCS (Yes those are strategic resource units and should be stronger, but still)

5. Academies are still really weak, consider bumping their basevalue up to 7 or 8

6. The Rationalism per policy unlocked bonus is really weak, consider making percentual, count in all cities or just change it to something else.

7. I think stealthbombers should be allowed on aircraftcarriers.

8. Please consider switching the Imperialism wonder to something of more compeating power with the other renaissance unlock policy wonders. Preferrably something with a global unhappiness reduction (like the other two)

9. I really love how you've made iron useful through the entire game. But it kinda emphasises how coal, oil and horses go obsolete, no idea how to fix this, just putting my thoughts here.

10. The free researchlab from Bletchley(spell?) Park one full era after the researchlab unlocks probably isn't going to be very useful.

11. Why does the bombshelter building provide a point of happiness? If it is meant to symbolise people feeling safe then I'm pretty sure walls or a castle made people feel more safe during their respective eras than a bombshelter does.

12. I love the reworked natural wonders, but they are kinda weirdly balanced. There are some that provide happiness (like old faithful), and while I can agree that 1 happiness is probably worth 3 yields there is another side to it, namely that you get the happiness just for having the wonder in your territory not having to work it. This leads to some weird situations, where for example some wonders are nice to pick up on the 4th circle of cityexpansions even if you can't work them, while others are useless, or a situation where that 6 yield natural wonder is worse than nearby tiles because it isn't a 9yield wonder.
Easy solution would be to make them all give 9yields.
Funny solution would be to make them all give somekinda bonus(doesn't have to be happiness) for just having them in your territory (and possibly tune down the yields to balance it out)

13. It would be reasonable if the culture gained from the libertyopener was added to the city that built the building for counting borderexpansions. And techs counting in the capital.

 

[Funak]

14. The medic promotion feels rather weird and while I've seen the AI pick it, I've actually never seen them use it properly. It would feel a lot more effective if it increased healing of the unit with the promotion, not just the units around it. It also makes sense considering unless you're horribly crippled, there is no reason why you couldn't treat your own wounds.

15. March lost a lot of power when the healing in enemy lands was reduced to 5 and while I wouldn't call it worthless, It is not worth a level 4 promotion. Maybe give it a increased healing effect or add another promotion increasing selfhealing.

16. I feel like more available promotions would make warfare more interesting.

17. In general the Asthetics tree feels pretty underwhelming, not really sure why but most of the tree just feels generally weak.

18. I still don't think the Exploration policy in the Imperialism tree is suited, it along with the louvre kinda forces people going for tourism-victory to go for Imperialism.

19. I kinda find it interesting that in the tooltip the Rationalism tree it focuses on maximizing growth, while only the finisher actually have anything to do with growth. It is technically correct but it still feels rather misleading.

 

[Finarvi]

Good point I agree with most of these propositions. But I need to play this mod more to speak out.

 

[Funak]

Good point I agree with most of these propositions. But I need to play this mod more to speak out.

I appreciate the fact that you respond even if you feel like you don't have anything to add. If you agree or disagree with anything I say just post it, worst thing that can happen is that someone disagrees with you.

You should never be afraid to speak your mind or voice your opinions, the only thing you risk is looking silly on the internet. I mean I speak my opinion all the time, I expect half of the people reading to think I'm silly and the other half to think I'm a escaped mentalpatient. That doesn't stop me and it shouldn't stop you either.

 

[AbsintheRed]

15. March lost a lot of power when the healing in enemy lands was reduced to 5 and while I wouldn't call it worthless, It is not worth a level 4 promotion. Maybe give it a increased healing effect or add another promotion increasing selfhealing.

March also has the potential to be used alongside a unit with a Medic or double Medic promotion.
So while I agree it's not much in it's pure form, this potential makes it more than worthy enough to be a level 4 promotion

Otherwise I agree with many things here, you make some pretty good points in some cases

 

[Funak]

March also has the potential to be used alongside a unit with a Medic or double Medic promotion.
So while I agree it's not much in it's pure form, this potential makes it more than worthy enough to be a level 4 promotion

March always had that potential, just like it always had the potential to pillage tiles while still healing, not sure if that alone makes it good.

March would be fine if the suggested medic change was implemented, or if there was another promotion buffing selfhealing outside of friendly territory.

Don't get me wrong, you are completely correct about it still having potential, but most of the time two points of cover is going to keep you alive way longer.

 

[AbsintheRed]

March would be fine if the suggested medic change was implemented.

I strongly support that change

 

[AbsintheRed]

2. The Ironclad requiring coal gives you a period when you're not able to build any ships without strategic resources. I'd suggest either removing the requirement or push back the corvette obsolation.

I would rather like a general rule here:
If you cannot build the newest unit, because you lack the strategic resource tied to it, you are able to build the previous unit too.
Or generally, you are always allowed to build the last 2 units of a given type, regardless of strategic resources.

 

[Funak]

I would rather like a general rule here:
If you cannot build the newest unit, because you lack the strategic resource tied to it, you are able to build the previous unit too.
Or generally, you are always allowed to build the last 2 units of a given type, regardless of strategic resources.

Most of the game you have access to some defensive units even with no strategic resources.
You have access to the spear-pike and later gunpowder units but not swords/horses, you have access to the archer-line but not the siegeweapon line, you have access to machineguns but not artillery. You have access to meleeships but not ranged ships. (exceptions being the Galleas and the Ironclad). All these units are fine for defense but pretty bad for attacking which in my opinion is completely acceptable. It is just that era between the corvette and the destroyer where you have no access to ships at all, leaving you pretty crippled in defending against a enemy fleet.

Lategame you're going to have problems since you don't have access to planes, but anti aircraft guns are pretty decent, and so are destroyers.

 

[AbsintheRed]

Most of the game you have access to some defensive units even with no strategic resources.
You have access to the spear-pike and later gunpowder units but not swords/horses, you have access to the archer-line but not the siegeweapon line, you have access to machineguns but not artillery. You have access to meleeships but not ranged ships. (exceptions being the Galleas and the Ironclad). All these units are fine for defense but pretty bad for attacking which in my opinion is completely acceptable. It is just that era between the corvette and the destroyer where you have no access to ships at all, leaving you pretty crippled in defending against a enemy fleet.

Lategame you're going to have problems since you don't have access to planes, but anti aircraft guns are pretty decent, and so are destroyers.

Yeah, I get that, no disagreements here. Cheaper, defensive type units without resource dependence are obviously needed.
But feels strange from a realistic view that if a new tech appeared with a new unit which you cannot yet build, you also cannot build it's earlier counterpart.
Why would a nation stop being able to build offensive_unit_a, if a new and better offensive_unit_b only in theory appeared, so it cannot be produced yet?

Also there can be tactical benefits: maybe you want to get the earlier offensive type units, and upgrade them when you acquire the strategic resource.
The general rule for me when designing mods is that I like to keep more options open, not only one.

 

[Llednar Twem]

The medic change makes sense, but if it's implemented something should probably be changed for scouts. A scout with survivalism 3 and medic 2 would heal itself for a tremendous amount every turn. Alternatively, maybe that's fine? Getting five promotions on a scout is pretty difficult, and they don't even upgrade to anything without lucky ruins.

Also, that's another thing I feel should be changed. As it is, scouts are the only unit that becomes obsolete with no replacement. That just seems odd to me. That said, they do still have a role late game...assuming you don't get them all killed after they go obsolete AND you leveled them up enough while enemies were weak enough for them to actually fight. A scout with the promotions I mentioned above is great for sitting around providing medic 2 to the rest of your units.

 

[Funak]

Also, that's another thing I feel should be changed. As it is, scouts are the only unit that becomes obsolete with no replacement. That just seems odd to me. That said, they do still have a role late game...assuming you don't get them all killed after they go obsolete AND you leveled them up enough while enemies were weak enough for them to actually fight. A scout with the promotions I mentioned above is great for sitting around providing medic 2 to the rest of your units.

There were explorers and something else as upgrades from scouts in civ 4 wasn't there? Could be an idea, if only relevant on terra/continents maps

 

[CunningGabe]

Also, that's another thing I feel should be changed. As it is, scouts are the only unit that becomes obsolete with no replacement. That just seems odd to me.

Agreed. I often find myself wanting to send out scouts after I can cross oceans, and then finding that I can't build any more

 

[Finarvi]

There should be Explorer unit in Renaissance with +2, +1 sight range, faster movement when embarked and more . It would be perfect for exploring new continents and making reconnaissance.

 

[Funak]

There should be Explorer unit in Renaissance with +2, +1 sight range, faster movement when embarked and more . It would be perfect for exploring new continents and making reconnaissance.

I'd say 3 or 4 moves, but that's just me. Could unlock at astronomy.

Maybe a heavy bonus vs barbarians and not being able to attack.

 

[Gazebo]

There should be Explorer unit in Renaissance with +2, +1 sight range, faster movement when embarked and more . It would be perfect for exploring new continents and making reconnaissance.

Needs artwork - if someone with blender skills wants to export the explorer model from civ 4 and clean it up, I'd add this in.

G

 

[joosegoose25]

Needs artwork - if someone with blender skills wants to export the explorer model from civ 4 and clean it up, I'd add this in.

G

Isn't there already a model included in the Scramble for Africa scenario? It appears this is what was used in the Explorer mod I've used in the past: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=160908195

 

[Funak]

Isn't there already a model included in the Scramble for Africa scenario? It appears this is what was used in the Explorer mod I've used in the past: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=160908195

Hmm, thought the explorer in Scramble used the archeologist model, I guess I'm blind aswell as stupid

Might however be the wrong era look on it, but I guess it's still better than nothing.

 

[Delekhan]

The thing with the Ironclad is that it becomes available at Steam Power.

Coal also becomes visible at Steam Power.

However, coal only becomes USABLE as a strategic resource at Industrialization, so between the time you research Steam Power to when you get Industrialization, you can't even build any Melee ships.

The obvious fix here is to make Coal usable at Steam Power, the same time it gets revealed.

 

[Funak]

The thing with the Ironclad is that it becomes available at Steam Power.

Coal also becomes visible at Steam Power.

However, coal only becomes USABLE as a strategic resource at Industrialization, so between the time you research Steam Power to when you get Industrialization, you can't even build any Melee ships.

The obvious fix here is to make Coal usable at Steam Power, the same time it gets revealed.

Yeah I was going to mention that aswell. Coal is usable at steam power, but it wont show up in the strategic resources list and workers wont automaticly improve the tiles. However you can still use it to build/upgrade ironclads even if you have to guess how much coal you have left.

Fixing this is a given, but I still don't believe the ironclad should be resourcedependant, I don't think any of the meleeships should be, something that people seem to agree with considering how much hate gazebo got from putting a resource-cost on the destroyer.