Some wonders should act like districts - mitigating the tile opportunity cost problem

[skywalker]

There is a bit of tension involved with the new system of on-map wonders. It's most fitting for many wonders like Big Ben or the Forbidden City to be placed in a large, important city. But a lot of the mechanics of these wonders push you to fit them into some out-of-the-way spot, if you can do so and still find the production to build them. For example, Big Ben loses you a tile - probably a valuable tile - and provides no particular benefit to the city it is in (other than the Theater Square adjacency bonus).

(This problem is even more annoying for the Eiffel Tower and the Forbidden City, since flat-land-adjacent-to-city-center is often a tile that would be a good spot for an ordinary district, or may be necessary for an Aqueduct.)

Ideally, the game would naturally lead you to want to place Big Ben in one of your most important commercial cities.

A way to achieve this would be to let some wonders act like their corresponding district type, giving that city a unique ability to have a second e.g. Commercial Hub, including adjacency bonuses. This would make those wonders powerful options for city specialization.

You can also mix things up a bit, with some wonders coming with certain district buildings pre-built, or having a custom list of available buildings. For example, the Venetian Arsenal could come with an Arsenal pre-built, have options to add a Factory and a Shipyard, and get adjacency bonuses from both Industrial Zones and Harbors. This would let you scale back its somewhat ridiculous normal ability (double all ships produced everywhere) while still being very strong.

 

[TomKQT]

This sounds too complicated, but maybe it could be set up to make sense, dunno.

I would be happy if they just increased slighly effects of some wonders AND lifted most tile/adjacency requirements. It's nice that pyramids are in a desert in reality, but does this mean that they couldn't be built on a grassland? You are not playing as Egypt, trying to replicate the way Egypt made their wonders. You are playing as a different civilization, you are making your own wonders. You can build pyramids wherever you want
I would keep restrictions only where it really makes sense and the wonder by its construction or nature relies on some particular tile property. For example how does Big Ben require a river next to it? I could however accept the need of a commercial zone next to it, it's a commercial wonder after all. Why do wonders like Bolshoi Theatre have to be on flat land? Surely they would be able to make such a building on hills. Christo Redentor and its requirement for a hill could be discussed, because I understand that it being on the top of a hill pays a big role in its effect.

 

[Stringer1313]

I don't really like the idea because the whole point of a game is to have opportunity costs, so that decisions are interesting. I think you're really complaining about wonders not being powerful enough, in which case I agree (with some of the wonders).

 

[skywalker]

I don't really like the idea because the whole point of a game is to have opportunity costs, so that decisions are interesting. I think you're really complaining about wonders not being powerful enough, in which case I agree (with some of the wonders).

The problem is not "opportunity costs exist"; the problem is that the opportunity costs are arranged in an antithematic way without offsetting benefits. And this isn't true of all of the wonders - Oxford and Ruhr avoid it, by contributing a bigger benefit in better cities.

 

[Elucidus]

I feel like a lot of what is in Civ IV is just to showcase new functionality, like science coming from certain tiles. I feel this is also the case for adjacent terrain requirements. I agree this is done too much and some wonders don't benefit the host city at all. Perhaps some of the wonders could also not take up a tile. Wonder balance is something many modders are trying to fix as well.

 

[Siptah]

+1
I suggested something like that here some time ago.
I wouldn't like a city to have more districts of the same type, though (your Big Bend example). Wonders should not be overpowered. I agree, that some of them are not the best thing to build right now. But the investment (both production and other opportunity costs) should stay high.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/district-wonders-or-wonder-districts.604137/#post-14563025