Something Different (SSE/EE Immortal)

[schwartz]

Explain exactly how 1 spy in every city is going to beat cottages+1 spy where you can afford it. You won't get more GS compared to a CE..

Sounds like the typical SE vs CE debate

Seriously though.. I think it's because it's more effective to have one SY city where you settle any GSpy that you get (Instead of making SYs all over). In the mid/late-game (Post-Democracy) the settled Spy will be worth 36 /turn (39 with nationhood, 42 with nationhood+castle pre-economics)

Even early on, it's worth the 12 base + 3 (6 with rep) which isn't matched by an early cottage.

Also, I think about running Specialist/Hybrid style EE (Especially with the pyramids) as a way to get the same benefits of normal tech + tech trading with less downside (WFYABTA, directly benefiting the AI by giving it a tech).

I'm open to learning here, so I'm interested in what your argument for cottages is. (EDIT2: Never mind, see your point now, even if I think both ways have their good points.)

EDIT:
lol, huge cross-post. That's what you get for leaving the computer for 10 minutes.

 

[Olodune]

For those of us who have a lazy streak, PH12.

Edit: Since spies cannot be massed (early) commerce driven EE is a clear winner, imo.

ungy-01 is a constrained EE played at Immortal with plenty of cottaging action.

 

[Olodune]

Since I seem to be in link providing mode, here is Cam_H's EE-friendly RPC, where several games were played as a commerce EE (mine included). Monarch/Pangaea. Link.

 

[Gliese 581]

I agree that an "espionage farm" is probably the best way to go if you rule out infiltration and still want to go heavy on spying, multiple SYs would be for a game with self-imposed limits as discussed.
There's just to much to gain by being the first to research techs.

But to further play along with some takes on this, how about a game without self-imposed limits that runs specialists sparingly in the early and mid-game. A first gpsy of the great wall for superespionage city and a GS for an academy for a superscience city, then only run a spy for a long time for slow gspy generation. Use a more or less pure cottage economy for the rest, supplement regular teching with some steals, build or capture the MoM and go bonanza in the late game with golden ages?
Hmm I don't know how far that drifted of from an EE game Anyhow, I probably neglect espionage to much so making a super-espionage city would be a nice touch to try for me. I usually run the EP slider at 0% for the entire game.
I also realized this is approaching rampant hijacking, sorry about that, but I'm eagerly anticipating obsolete's next post.

 

[obsolete]

975 BC

City #4 going up for construction.

Looks like Willem is busy up in the north expanding down toward me now. And there’s a good chance a religious war will break out soon.

BTW, unfortunately that spot down south with the food sources got snatched a turn too early on me by Isabella! Arghhhhhhhhhhhh. What a bad beat. In any case, I decided instead to just use the settler to grab this spot up here. Hopefully I can snatch the elephants away from Willem, but that will be a bit hard vs. his culture goals.

Note, even without anything supporting science, our settled G-Spy is giving 3 beakers. I decided to assign him to the task of getting Polytheism, ONLY 28 MORE TURNS!

 

[obsolete]

950 BC
Traded alphabet to Catherine for Sailing, Polytheism, and archery.

Actually, I may have thrown her archery tech back at her, can’t remember now. But seems I definitely gave up on using the G-Spy to actively research those full 28 turns *laugh*

I also gave Augustus alphabet for IW. The more tech power I give them, the faster I can steal better techs and hopefully get an unbeatable lead up vs. whatever is on the other continent before they make contact.
-ni

925 BC

City #5 is going up for construction. Just 1 more left!

Note: Not much down near this area. Lots of ugly ice and tundra, but at least it has ONE friggen source of food to do SOMETHING with. And I simply need/want at least 6 cities.

* I also traded IW to Willem for Priesthood.

 

[obsolete]

575 BC
Our spy has complete its first mission! We steal mathematics.

* We also trade IW & Mathematics to Catherine for Monarchy. Now time to get our wineries going in the capital.
-ni

275 BC
We steal another tech, Calendar.
-ni

175 BC
Our second Great Spy pops.

I read suggestions on the form that the S-Yard should be created. But instead I absorbed him, deciding to wait for the 3’rd GS to build the SY. This way I have two great spy specialists both contributing science so I can finish off researching CoL without spending money on it. Optimal? Good question! I am partway done researching it already.
-ni

25 BC
Ahhh, City #6 going up for construction here.

So, that’s it. Game is basically won already so there really isn’t much need to continue from here. But I guess everyone is anxious to see what happens, so I’ll stick around for a little bit longer.

Note: CoL 12 turns till ready. And Willem looks like he is bee lining for the g-library. I could TRY to grab that off him and build the GL myself, unfortunately it will pollute my precious spy-pool, so I am going to avoid it.

I bet you didn’t think you’d ever see someone avoid the GL for THAT reason before…

 

[obsolete]

25 AD
Ahh, the AD years now. And we steal Aesthetics! The sad part is… we have gold to get 2x hammers for getting the Paya. And while I normally get it no matter what, I am somehow…. controlling the repulsive urge to build THAT wonder too. Amazing.
-ni

325 AD
We trade our self-researched (at 0% payment) CoL to Catherine for Meditation. Unfortunately, she wouldn’t let me trade Metal Casting off of her. Looks like we got trade-raped, but at least it will boost relations some more.
-ni

500 AD
We steal…. CURRENCY! Perhaps a little too early, I haven’t finished scouting EVERY city on the continent just yet.

** We also then trade CoL & Aesthetics & Currency to the religious fanatic for Machinery & 30g.

*** On top of all that, we also steal Construction.

And this propels us into the Medieval Era.

Spoiler :

Note: Oh dear, looks like I’m on the bottom of the list…

EoL

 

[Gliese 581]

Couldn't you build TGL in another city than your capital? Then use the scientist for an academy there. Then get the cheap techs by self research and save on the WFYABTA.
Are you going to build the NE in the capital and risk GAs?

 

[pi-r8]

Hahaha! "the game is won from here".... while he's on the bottom of the list. I love it!

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Obsolete always says that @ six cities... I thought because he can get the needed national wonders in his capitol...but in this case I'm not so sure six is an all that magical number...but what do I know.

I bet he gets more cities eventually though

 

[vicawoo]

Games won already vs deity AIs cheat so much that I lose for no reason late game. Seems inconsistent.

Shouldn't you speed up code of laws research so you can build courthouses and run spy specialists? Extra turns of half maintenance costs, 1 beaker, 4 espionage points, and 40% faster great spy generation seem worth it.

 

[Gliese 581]

Shouldn't you speed up code of laws research so you can build courthouses and run spy specialists? Extra turns of half maintenance costs, 1 beaker, 4 espionage points, and 40% faster great spy generation seem worth it.

He's put in a 0% research slider restriction for this game (past alphabet).

 

[Yeosol]

I was reading some old posts. This comment almost made me . .. .. .. . myself. Obsolete from July 2006

"I play nothing lower than Monarch, and this is pretty much the most useless UU on that level. Ghandi also sucks there too over-all. You need to attack, not build wonders. That 100% build boost is useless unless you want to be building stuff for ANOTHER AI."

Change of heart I guess

 

[PopHut]

Obsolete always says that @ six cities... I thought because he can get the needed national wonders in his capitol...but in this case I'm not so sure six is an all that magical number...but what do I know.

I bet he gets more cities eventually though

Since most educated men would look at the preview screen-shot first, before taking that bet, I don't think you will find many takers

This is one reason I am not so sure previews are a good thing.

 

[Gliese 581]

Since most educated men would look at the preview screen-shot first, before taking that bet, I don't think you will find many takers

This is one reason I am not so sure previews are a good thing.

Well these games are never "live games" so we always know that they're going to end with a space win and some fun with nukes. It's not like following the ALC for example..
At least, that's how all the posted wonder games play out, this is a new take (I didn't look at the spoiler).

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Actually, I think he's gone other routes than space before, such as domination. After all, the super wonder-whore capitol can throw out tanks every turn, and probably nukes too. Enemy SoD's aren't much when you can throw 10 nukes their way without flinching and just rebuild them! He could probably go any victory type, though I doubt we'll ever see cultural unless he's goaded into it.

 

[obsolete]

Obsolete, did you achieve tech parity with any of the AIs in your deity attempts? If you did, when did it happen?

A. When getting Internet.
B. When the world is nuking itself to death
C. When the vassal leaders all give up teching and just go for cultural victories
D. When I just keep stealing from the tech-leader

Couldn't you build TGL in another city than your capital? Then use the scientist for an academy there. Then get the cheap techs by self research and save on the WFYABTA.
Are you going to build the NE in the capital and risk GAs?

I would still be getting scientist-pollution.

NE I try to save for the National Park.

I was reading some old posts. This comment almost made me . .. .. .. . myself. Obsolete from July 2006

"I play nothing lower than Monarch, and this is pretty much the most useless UU on that level. Ghandi also sucks there too over-all. You need to attack, not build wonders. That 100% build boost is useless unless you want to be building stuff for ANOTHER A change of heart I guess 

The change since 2006 was many actually. Ghandi was not Ghandi, but another leader. His traits were different. In fact, the GW wasn’t even around, nor were some other wonders, or GG’s, or Spies, etc. Actually it doesn’t even matter, because IIRC I was regurgitation a comment that some know-it-all player from the General area of the forum (I think), who had previously lectured me.

 

[obsolete]

It’s been a while, time to update and get back on track…

700
Manually researching drama with our specialists, while we steal Civil Service
-ni

800
Stole Paper.
-ni

920
Another Great Spy arrives.
-ni

1030
And now, we enter the Renaissance Era, since we just stole Education.
-ni

Note: Yeah, yeah, that was the most quickest/boringest era to go through in this game. Nothing even happened worth a screenshot.

EoL

 

[obsolete]

The Renaissance Era!

1030 (continued)

Well, now that we stole education, lets trade it to Isabel for:
Compass
Feudalism
Literature
30g.

-ni

1040

Rut-Roh. Willem is 1 turn away from liberalism. We have no hope to beat him but… don’t worry, be happy. We may not have the lead yet, but we can still grab the techs from him.

* Anyhow, here is a shot of what our continent looks like. Finally something ALMOST worth looking at.