Sons of Monarchy XV: Sitting Bull of Native America

[TheMeInTeam]

Ick. I won, but Ick.

1907 "Diplomation"

Spoiler :

Zara and Wang both PAvassal'd to Hammurabi, and there were defensive pacts all over the place so I DoW'd sury (charlie was already fighting) and bribed sal in (canceled DP). Capped sury, dow/capped charlie and sal with infantry/arty. By then, hammurabi had gunships, mechinf, tac nukes, jet fighters...sigh. I bought rocketry to at least grab SAM infantry but I couldn't make it to fission in time most likely, so I just DoW'd. Charlie sponged about 3/4 of the nuke and I didn't get stack wiped because I held my big stack back while ham nuked my border cities. I popped Wang early in the war instead and he broke free/capped to my side.

I forfeited Zara capitol since I couldn't hold it under these conditions and then took his 2 large cities on my border. I took one of hammurabi's cities too before HE called a UN victory vote, which I won using vassals alone X_X.

He had spent his tac nukes (I know due to airship scouting) so his remaining nuke capabilities weren't great and I'd stack split after his inbound stack oddly got annihilated in sury's land by combo of sury/charlie. Even if he nuked down 1 stack, I had 4 others. I'd have won the war eventually anyway but what a slugfest. Freaking PAvassals are pretty annoying.

 

[Izuul]

I took a stab at this on Deity

Spoiler :

Boxed in with 5 cities just like Joe. The map turned into a Jewish love fest with only Sal and Charlie in their own religions. Zara, Sury, Wang, and Hammy were flying through techs at a ridiculous rate, and i was powerless to stop them b/c i could never get enough tech to get them to do anything. Sal did attack Korea so Wang was occupied for quite some time, but still flying through techs. 425AD and he has Guilds and will have GP in 3 turns all while fighting a war since the BCs.

I thought about going for Construction early in the game, but it took too long to get the cottages and tech going, and i thought i would just be too late. I think that would've been the case because Sal and Wang both had Feudalism and Prot Longbows very early. That also spoiled my other idea of trying to sneak in and steal a 6th city from Sal while he was fighting Wang. It could have worked against Archers and melee units, but not against LBs.

Anyway, Zara got Lib in 400AD and i just quit. I'm not sure if I'm completely giving up or just taking a break... I could tech on to Steel b/c i have Edu and my research is pretty good now, but I'm not sure how quickly i could get a decent cannon army together with just 5 cities, or how to go about actually trying to win. Charlie has a good bit of land, so if he's #1 in pop i could take out Saladin (who should be behind) likely putting me #1 or #2 in pop and possibly win UN since everyone else loves me and hates Charlie.

Alternatively, i could go straight for Zara before he runs away any more in tech and try to knock out the top threats before they get Infantry+. That all depends on how quickly i can actually get Steel and get an army together though. Right now i can trade for Machinery, but i still lack GP, Chem, and Steel, and i doubt bulbing Chemistry is really an option. Granted I've only gotten 3 GP and haven't even used a GA yet, but i would have to bulb and finish Printing Press before i could even bulb Chemistry.

If it all goes miserably, i think i might try it later on Immortal. It does look like a fun map.

 

[zampa86]

So I figured I'd have a try at this, never played monarch level before, only played prince once. So I thought I'd be a hell of a game. Anyways here is how it went. (so far..)

Spoiler :

I did cheat a bit and read your spoiled text so I had the slightest chance, I teched wheel -> pottery -> mining -> BW -> then all the way to oracle (dont remember what thech that gives that. Chopped most of the trees around my starting area to complete it and took CoL as free tech. But since everyone were so slow with gething alphabet i also got monarchy prior to that.

I decided to war very early, once i got my second city up, i whipped 2 dog's and rushed chinese with that, he just build a city with a single archer defender, so i managed to take that. After that I decided to war saladin, and take the source of horse that was just north of the starting location. After that zara hamurabi declared war on me, luckily i had hit feudalism and had not too much issue to defend it. (since they weren't much coordinated.)

Sury grew like a mad man, and kon vasalled to him. I figured I'd try to beat saladin to pieces and get him as a vasall but that bugger had quite a lot of troops in his bases.

Charlemange and I have been on good terms since the start, he has been on and off fighting with sury so i keep gifting him everything I get so someone can take him down a notch.

Just before I stopped playing for today, I payed sury to stop attacking charlemange, everyone declared war on saladin, and he vasalled to Zara. So now its pretty much Kon + Sury, zara + sala, me + charle, and hamurabi on his own.

Oh and as i payed sury to stop attacking charlemange, zara declared war on sury.
(and with all the vasalls attacking each other who knows what happens).
As I showed in my screenshow 1460AD, and so far I think noone has got lib. (Is that common?)


I should also mention, Zara, and Sury have like twice my military power. And charlemange has at the moment a third in between me and the top 2 guys. (hamurabi is about the same as charlemange)

 

[Pengu]

imm until 1520 AD

Spoiler :

Could have gone a lot smother here.
Saladin og course got music a couple of turns before me and Charlie got both TGL and MoM by 1 turn ahead of me
Well, lots of failgold, but I wasn't teching that fat and Zara and Sal traded like crazy. I bulbed edu and libbed eco so I could get before the AI. Hammy who was backwards all of a sudden demanded 650 gold. After I turned him down he dowed me.
All it amounted to was him sending in a stack and pillaging without reallt attacking. Still hurt me as he ruined my cottages and mines. And I had to build units.
Well, AP vote came in and peace was made. I went straight for steel after lib and by 1150 Sal had rifling.. and he was friendly so no real interest in him, even if he had the shrine.
So WK it is. He had broken free from Hammy so he was a sitting duck and easily capped. Next it had to be Sury, who was at war with Zara. Zara had rifling by now and Sury was still kicking his *** as he had something like 15-16 cities. So what happens?
Hammy is immediately bribed into the war. Ugh. And he had opened borders with Zara, unlike Sury and sent his stack in the backdoor. Even with rifles and cannons I lost my capitol as my stack was too far away and even if my cannons made a work of his stack he still attacked with those numbers he would win. I took it back in a few turns, but boy did it cripple me. Had to build a new palace and some new buildings. Made peace as soon as I could even if his stack was gone. Zara was taking cities from Sury so they made peace. Very dissaponted that Charlie never dowed Sury as he has been wonderwhoring and is going culture. Anyway, Sury went from 14 to 13 and so one until he was down to 4! Then he capped. Just makes no sense as he had no army, wasnät close to anything and just lost 10 cities.
So that's where I am now. Zara and Sal are pleased and soon got AL. Charlie soon has rifling as well as Hammy. Charlie will probably be next to crush his culture crap.

 

[Pengu]

Until 1685 AD

Spoiler :

Once Sury and 14 cities were under my wing I knew I had the upper hand even though I was ranked 3rd for some weird reason.
Charlie was next but it didn't turn out as easy as i'd expected.
1st city I took I encountered longbows. 2nd city rifles and 3rd city infantry...
And to make matters worse that idiot just refused to cap. Not until his land was in chaos and Achen had fallen ddid he accept defeat. Good thing as he wasn't far from artillery..I don't really know what Hammy has been doing this game but he was pathetic. He didn't have rifles or steel. I thought with that weak army and my overwhelming numbers that he's cap fast after his stack was gone. But oh no, had to take all but 4 cties before he capped. So now I have 2 super advanced AI's left. Sal only has 5 cities though so he's be no problem. Zara is still friendly with even after having 4 vassals
But he must die I guess as he has 13 cities and is closing in on tanks.
Can't see how he could hang on vs 4 other civs, including a huge Sury who is normally a very capable vassal.

 

[Tall German Joe]

So I figured I'd have a try at this, never played monarch level before, only played prince once. So I thought I'd be a hell of a game. Anyways here is how it went. (so far..)

Spoiler :

I did cheat a bit and read your spoiled text so I had the slightest chance, I teched wheel -> pottery -> mining -> BW -> then all the way to oracle (dont remember what thech that gives that. Chopped most of the trees around my starting area to complete it and took CoL as free tech. But since everyone were so slow with gething alphabet i also got monarchy prior to that.

I decided to war very early, once i got my second city up, i whipped 2 dog's and rushed chinese with that, he just build a city with a single archer defender, so i managed to take that. After that I decided to war saladin, and take the source of horse that was just north of the starting location. After that zara hamurabi declared war on me, luckily i had hit feudalism and had not too much issue to defend it. (since they weren't much coordinated.)

Sury grew like a mad man, and kon vasalled to him. I figured I'd try to beat saladin to pieces and get him as a vasall but that bugger had quite a lot of troops in his bases.

Charlemange and I have been on good terms since the start, he has been on and off fighting with sury so i keep gifting him everything I get so someone can take him down a notch.

Just before I stopped playing for today, I payed sury to stop attacking charlemange, everyone declared war on saladin, and he vasalled to Zara. So now its pretty much Kon + Sury, zara + sala, me + charle, and hamurabi on his own.

Oh and as i payed sury to stop attacking charlemange, zara declared war on sury.
(and with all the vasalls attacking each other who knows what happens).
As I showed in my screenshow 1460AD, and so far I think noone has got lib. (Is that common?)


I should also mention, Zara, and Sury have like twice my military power. And charlemange has at the moment a third in between me and the top 2 guys. (hamurabi is about the same as charlemange)

the chinese ??? don't ever call a korean chinese to his face, or else you'll have trouble!

 

[zampa86]

the chinese ??? don't ever call a korean chinese to his face, or else you'll have trouble!

Oh yeah didnt realize i wrote chineese guessi was tired it was like 4-5 am.

Spoiler :

ok so now I'm a bit confused and annoyed...

My game turned out to be quite a stalemate. surrounded by zara which had 3 times the military power of what i had, so i figured i'd go tech crazy and take a shot at the space race. And both me and a computer launched the rocket the very same turn (i ran built everything but a second engine, didnt realize you could build two.)

Anyhow Hammurabi were always close in building at he completed 3 parts the same turn he launcehd. putting him at every part besides 1 engine, and one thruster.

Yet for some reason he wins the spacerace when i have one additional part and we launch the same time? I really don't see how that makes sense...

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

@zampa86

Spoiler :

Yeah, the AI cheats in space wins

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Makes me sick honestly. Pre-game handicaps given are one thing. "My rules are not your rules and there's nothing to indicate that such is the case" is fake difficulty and has no place in AAA titles.

 

[Pengu]

Until 1834 AD

Spoiler :

Sigh, I don't beleive this ****. Zara is getting his *** handed to him and I take 1,2,3 cities and he's doing fine. I whipe him from the continent with him having 5 island cities and he just refuses to cap. I move on and dow Sal instead. I take 3 cities and my vassals 2 and whipe him from the continent. But once again he refuse to cap. So now I have 60% of the land, at war with 2 stupid AI's with a few cities scattered around on some islands. So I probably will have to start a naval invasion cause my vassals swon't do anything. So frustrating, this should had been done ages ago, but all the Ai's in this game have been so damn stubborn, not willing to cap until there is really nothng left.

 

[zampa86]

@VoiceOFUnreason

Spoiler :

Ah that explains it. But then again my launch were at like 2013 or something, so can't really say I launched it early. Need to improve that for later games. And if one who for some reason decided to go for spaceship simply started war, he would have killed everyone. I went from riflemens straight into space ship tech. Checked my logs when the game was over, less than 100 units killed. Less than 150 units built. I barely even got to use my riflemen. xD

 

[Pengu]

1870 dom

Spoiler :

The Un was built but there was no way I was going to win that way. So on with some transports and destroyers and time to kill. Of course Sal caps as soon as I take on stupid city. ZZZZ, all that build up just cause he wouldn't cap before. Then I was hell bent on whiping Zara of the map. He did the same thing, offer to cap after I took one city. But I refused and told him to do one. Then on the turn I am going to take his last city I reach dom
Wasn't that hard map if you can keep Sury under control. I went straight for him as my 1st target when he and Zara were at war. Once him and his 15 cities are on your side the other Ai's are left in the dust.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

@ Pengu:

When going for cap, try to abuse the "land target" (8 border tiles between target AI and someone else at war with him). It makes cap much easier.

 

[Fippy]

Why do we always see such maps for these series?
2 wet corn, lots of river and FPs already visible..what happened to starts you will see 80% of the time when launching games, and not this?
No idea what comes after on this map, but this is so *not* tempting to play it hurts.

 

[Izuul]

Then don't play it? This is like the 3rd straight game thread you have posted in just to complain about the start being too easy.

 

[Pengu]

@ Pengu:

When going for cap, try to abuse the "land target" (8 border tiles between target AI and someone else at war with him). It makes cap much easier.

Hm, not sure I see exactly what you mean. How does that work?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Hm, not sure I see exactly what you mean. How does that work?

If a target shares 8 border tiles with a civ fighting him (standard map) he qualifies for the modifier "islandtarget" and doesn't need as much punishment to capitulate. This is part of why chain caps are so easy; each next target borders your vassal, who is a "land target" with the next.

 

[Choggy]

Emperor NHNE To 350BC

Spoiler :

WK's early Alpha grab meant I was able to trade Writing for him for an early Academy before using Aesthetics for trade-bait for Alpha and some back-techs. Up to 7 cities, going to settle near the Fish for an NE city for 8 cities which if I can get the Mids should be enough for Lib.

Went with Judaism after a demand from Zara (don't need him getting the ache with me as my southern cities are pretty exposed with all that jungle around) unfortunately that means that WK and Sal are going to hate my guts pretty soon and I'd like to take one of them out (probably Sal). HBR and Construction are both available to tech but I haven't yet decided which way to go with this

 

[pigswill]

Monarch normal hutless. 1430 dom.

Spoiler :

After killing Sal in 25bc I turtled while heading for miltrad. Researched compass and gunpowder while waiting for a GS to bulb lib. Got lib>miltrad 900ad and was able to build/upgrade cuirassiers straight away. Declared on WK 1040, he vassalised to Zara which was a bit of a nuisance and led to a bigger war than I hoped, but got there in the end (destroyed Wang, capped Zara), Hammy was next followed by Sury who had acquired a bunch of land. However I got to rifling 1250 and a mass upgrade to cavalry. Sury fell pretty quickly after that followed by Chuck soon after.
A fun romp and a nice break from RLC/SGOTM. I even got a decent score! (250k)

 

[Izuul]

Deity 1400AD

Spoiler :

This map has been a mess pretty much from the start. Nothing is working out well on the Diplo front. First there was a Jewish love fest with a bunch of runaway techers. Zara got Lib in 400, and i had to tech on to Steel myself. I was preparing to go after Sal, but he was plotting and seemed to be waiting out our 10-turn peace treaty to attack me about a half dozen turns before i was ready to attack him. I had to give Wang Chemistry, a tech that i wanted to keep b/c it was actually a monopoly, to attack Sal to keep him from wrecking me.

I got my units upgraded and jumped into the war, preparing to basically wipe Sal out entirely b/c i didn't want him as a vassal largely due to the diplo hit it would cause me. Unfortunately, Wang started an AP vote for war on the infidel which passed and suddenly everyone was invading Arabia. I was able to take 5 cities before i had to capitulate him b/c Sury was outside of his capitol with an absolute monster stack (like 50-60 units) and would've surely capped him on the next turn.

I wasn't sure what to do next as almost everyone i could attack would bribe/AP the rest of the world on me, but an opportunity presented itself when Sury and Hammy switched to Islam and Zara was willing to DOW Sury for Military Science and a little bit of gold. I jumped into the war, killed a bunch of units, and took 1 oddly placed city located b/t Ethiopa, Korea, and Babylon, but then Zara used the damn AP to stop the war with a resolution that passed by like 30 votes.

So now I'm left with 11 cities (1 about to be useless when culture rights itself), 1 useless vassal that nobody likes, and a continent full of guys that are starting to get Infantry, MGs, and Destroyers, and probably Arty soon as well. If that's not enough, they all have techs that they can bribe each other on me with, and while I'm "friendly" with Korea and Zara, I'm actually just pleased due to Sal, so it's possible i could even fall down to cautious and get attacked by one of them if i DoW the other.

I don't think that i can continue to fight Sury. He still has a stack of 30 or so Cavs/Cuirs + some other units (despite having already lost about 40 units over the last half dozen turns) sitting in a Babylonian city 3 tiles away that will probably hit me next turn to retake his lost city. I'm going to have to take peace for 100g to avoid losing my entire stack.

I could attack Korea now, but he literally has 35 protective rifles sitting in his main stack plus a bunch of other units, and he has a few Infantry around which means many/all of those 35 rifles could be infantry soon. There's no way i can handle that.

It probably makes the most sense to go after Zara but i have 6-7 turns of peace remaining with him. He has MGs, and can research Assembly Line and Arty, but hasn't gone to either yet. His army is hurting a bit after his little war with Sury. I think if i spend the rest of the peace treaty building up i can take him out. His war with Sury also damaged their relations to the point where he can't bribe him on me. I think my relations with WK will also stay high enough to avoid a bribe there, but I'm worried about Babylon. He will probably bribe Charlie on me too, but afaik Charlie still doesn't have open borders with Sury, so he can only try to boat me or something dumb like that.

I'm not optimistic this one will end well. Even if i manage to vassal Zara, Babylon is strong and Korea and the Khmer are both monsters. Somebody is going to win space by 1800 I'm sure.