Spain for Civ 7 (Post Preview Announcements)

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

1. Which Age should they be?
Since under this new rule, Spain can be EITHER Age 2 (Rise and Zenith), or Age 3 (decline, downfall, and return as equal modern nation state).
there's still problems either on UU or era that best fits in.
Since as Empire Spain emerged at the later stage of Age 2 (the very ending days in fact), and even developed their military innovations--Pike and Shotte Infantry--, originally as Colunelas, and later three 'columns' are combined to form one 'Tercio'. something everyone else followed suit, (though not immediately, it comes with musketry, after the first Tercio came to be, for many years up north. there's Battle of Flodden and too bad it didnt fought with handheld firearms as yet, it was still scottish pikemen VS english pikemen + archers + (maybe) field cannons. (British Isles maybe late for this, maybe?), and aroudn that time, Conquistadores began to conquer Mesoamerican empires (though most of the time they talked first, with many locals for the way to The Golden City. what Spanish conquistadores got in return was sometimes 'the target Empire's weakness'. so manpower that many big name Conquistadores used against these Empires were mainly consisted of local folks particularly of grievance vassals demanding 'justice'. Spanish and other Europeans alone, even with overall arms superiority, did not enough, but their deceits (and other resourcefulness, including the use of spaniard mountaineers to collect sulphur from a dangerous volcanic pond! one of the three ingredients to make gunpowders for their guns) did alot more. and they started to form Empires when Age Ending Crises came to be.
2. Is it better to divide Spain into two different civs astriding two Ages?
Age 2 Castille (Emblem is Tower),
UU would be either Conquistadores, Tercio, or Ginets (replaces knights), but either Conquistadores or Ginets will do since both can be Tier 2 units while Tercio is only Tier 3 (comes with gunpowder, and this means only not so many turns to use).

Age 3 Spain (better not using bull head as emblem, there are always better one).
Now Tercio is Tier 1, and can enjoy a very long improvements into the endgame.

Both of which are totalitarian militaristic and religious civs.

3. No matter what Age 2 names would be. this is one of so many potential successor to Rome.
4. Default leader. who should it be?
A. Charles V
B. Isabelle
C. Phillip II (can also rule Portugal if this civ emerges in Age 2 or 3 but better be 2).

 

[Zaarin]

We know from the Augustus First Look that Spain is Exploration Age (Age 2).

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

We know from the Augustus First Look that Spain is Exploration Age (Age 2).

Where?
clip please.

 

[Zaarin]

Where?
clip please.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

OK I saw it.

 

[Xandinho]

I'm expecting Conquistadors as unique Great People who will help Spain colonize and dominate other continents.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

I'm expecting Conquistadors as unique Great People who will help Spain colonize and dominate other continents.

Unique Great People that also serves as field commander ?
what he should be able to do is to reinforce his armies from enemy towns--they were sly that made uses of native populations against Mesoamerican Empires. Spanish couldn't rule much of continental Americas without local folks taking sides with this White Gods.
and it is more important than Spanish superior weaponry and combat experiences, Spain couldn't equip these native auxilia fast enough nor even bother to do so. Spanish use European weapons they carried all the time, natives use what thay made there, largely obsidian based hand weapons.

 

[Zaarin]

Spanish couldn't rule much of continental Americas without local folks taking sides with this White Gods.

While Cortes certainly owed much of his success to the Tlaxcaltec, the idea that the Mexica saw Cortes as a god is not attested until decades later and was very probably invented by Cortes himself. (I'd also go with named conquistadors and give that ability to Cortes specifically. Pizarro, for example, owed his success more to smallpox--as did Cortes--the Inca civil war, and Atahualpa's own incompetence.)

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

While Cortes certainly owed much of his success to the Tlaxcaltec, the idea that the Mexica saw Cortes as a god is not attested until decades later and was very probably invented by Cortes himself. (I'd also go with named conquistadors and give that ability to Cortes specifically. Pizarro, for example, owed his success more to smallpox--as did Cortes--the Inca civil war, and Atahualpa's own incompetence.)

Having unique Conquistadors and not specifying and naming them, would be a missed opportunity.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Just a thought, but reinforcing the whole 'Exploration' Age, another possible Spanish Unique (non-military) Unit might be the Flota Galleon, the classic galleon of the Treasure Fleets whose design was authorized by the Spanish Crown in the early 17th century.

Since apparently Merchants can both go out to find trade nodes and partners as well as establish Trade Routs, the Flota Galleon, perhaps, could establish Trade Routes that provide better returns and have more range than regular Routes, and the Galleon itself would be a very well-defended 'Merchant' able to project the Routes into hostile or potentially hostile territory with a much better chance of survival.

 

[Zaarin]

Just a thought, but reinforcing the whole 'Exploration' Age, another possible Spanish Unique (non-military) Unit might be the Flota Galleon, the classic galleon of the Treasure Fleets whose design was authorized by the Spanish Crown in the early 17th century.

Since apparently Merchants can both go out to find trade nodes and partners as well as establish Trade Routs, the Flota Galleon, perhaps, could establish Trade Routes that provide better returns and have more range than regular Routes, and the Galleon itself would be a very well-defended 'Merchant' able to project the Routes into hostile or potentially hostile territory with a much better chance of survival.

That's sort of what I'm hoping for the Phoenicians in Antiquity, as well. And since Phoenicians > Spanish is pretty probable...that would synergize well, too.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

That's sort of what I'm hoping for the Phoenicians in Antiquity, as well. And since Phoenicians > Spanish is pretty probable...that would synergize well, too.

A Special Sea-Going Merchant/Trade Ship Unique Unit would be most appropriate for:
Phoenicians - Bireme
Portuguese - Nau
Spanish - Flota Galleon

Unfortunately, I don't believe we have any indication of Phoenicians or Cathaginians in the Antiquity Age and with 6 Antiquity Civs already known it doesn't look good. With Spain pretty much confirmed as an Exploration Age civ, I don't think the chances of Portugal are that good, at least for Launch, so a Spanish Flota Galleon is probably the only 'real' bet for such a mechanic in the base game.

The good news, so to speak, is that since the Merchant is Civilian Unit, they could get everybody's favorite Genocidal Unique, the Conquistadores, in the game and still have room for a Unique Merchant like the Flota Galleon.

As usual, We'll See.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

^ Then again, throughout the entire history of Sid Meier's Civilization Series. Portugal is alwayas expansion civ (since the first installments that included this civ), and their UU is always dubbed Carrack, until Civ5 when the unit name is changed to Nau (Since Carrack term is generic). in every Civ game, Nau ALWAYS Replace Caravels (another Portuguese famous invention IRL).
This could mean that Portuguese UC will do exactly the same ething Flota Galleon does.

This time FXis should do it right with Naval Evolutions, especially in Age2. so far Age 2 watercrafts i've seen are
1. Asian or Southeast Asian Sweeps Galley of sort, not sure if these are Age1 residue units or indeed Age2 Unit.
2. Cogs (Well of Soul labelled cogs as 'caravel'. in truth Cogs were much older, and even got sternpost rudder very early (11th Century!)
3. Carrack. (A ship with three masts and two tall built in castellations)
4. Galleon.

this time Caravel could instead be Portugal exclusives, since AFAIK only Portugal uses 'original' designs and evolved Caravels all by themselves, and even then keeping sail plans distinct to Naus so to identify what is what. When someone else copied Caravels, the ship got Carrack sail plan and not original Caravelas anymore.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

A Special Sea-Going Merchant/Trade Ship Unique Unit would be most appropriate for:
Phoenicians - Bireme
Portuguese - Nau
Spanish - Flota Galleon

Unfortunately, I don't believe we have any indication of Phoenicians or Cathaginians in the Antiquity Age and with 6 Antiquity Civs already known it doesn't look good. With Spain pretty much confirmed as an Exploration Age civ, I don't think the chances of Portugal are that good, at least for Launch, so a Spanish Flota Galleon is probably the only 'real' bet for such a mechanic in the base game.

The good news, so to speak, is that since the Merchant is Civilian Unit, they could get everybody's favorite Genocidal Unique, the Conquistadores, in the game and still have room for a Unique Merchant like the Flota Galleon.

As usual, We'll See.

Aksum did already get a unique civilian trading ship.

I believe it was mentioned that a new type of Commander unit would also appear every new Age. I would assume that the new Exploration Age commander would be a Naval unit. It's quite possible that a Conquistador could be a special Naval Commander that would also have the ability to go on land, as in become a hybrid Naval/Land Commander. I expect them and maybe the Tercios as the miltiary UU.

If the Conquistador is indeed the military UU, then I would expect the Flota Galleon to be the civilian UU though.

 

[Zaarin]

Unfortunately, I don't believe we have any indication of Phoenicians or Cathaginians in the Antiquity Age and with 6 Antiquity Civs already known it doesn't look good.

I don't expect them on release, but I'm sure we'll get them sooner or later.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Aksum did already get a unique civilian trading ship.

I believe it was mentioned that a new type of Commander unit would also appear every new Age. I would assume that the new Exploration Age commander would be a Naval unit. It's quite possible that a Conquistador could be a special Naval Commander that would also have the ability to go on land, as in become a hybrid Naval/Land Commander. I expect them and maybe the Tercios as the miltiary UU.

If the Conquistador is indeed the military UU, then I would expect the Flota Galleon to be the civilian UU though.

I am aware of Aksum's unique trading ship, but was thinking particularly of a Unique Merchant that establishes Trade Routes with unique attributes, or one that combines the attributes of Merchant and Trade Ship.

In fact, since Trade Ships and Merchants appear to both be 'civilian' units, I think it opens up the prospect of multiple Unique Units, civilian and military, for several Civs. Spain's Flota Galleon, though, is so specifically linked to lucrative Trade that it cries out for inclusion.

I have not seen any details of the 'new type of commander'. On the one hand, it could mean Naval Commanders will be added in the Exploration Age (which would fit perfectly with their stated emphasis in that Age) and Air Commanders in the Modern Age. Although I hope that Civ VII's AI knows what to do with air units before they put any emphasis on them - the whole air unit system in Civ VI was just a gift to the human player.

Or it could mean new commanders with unique attributes and bonuses we haven't seen yet or commanders with capabilities (as you posted) on both land and sea, or Unique Commanders for Civs, which I would find intriguing (and would probably critique the H**l out of them!) but I think would require naming the Commanders, which there is no sign of them doing.

With all that people have ferreted out in the past month, there is still so much we don't know . . .

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I have not seen any details of the 'new type of commander'. On the one hand, it could mean Naval Commanders will be added in the Exploration Age (which would fit perfectly with their stated emphasis in that Age) and Air Commanders in the Modern Age. Although I hope that Civ VII's AI knows what to do with air units before they put any emphasis on them - the whole air unit system in Civ VI was just a gift to the human player.

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/youtube-videos-from-civ-streamers.691337/page-4
It was mentioned in one of the YouTube videos asking the devs questions about the game. And yes, it was confirmed that Naval Commanders appear for the Exploration Age.

Or it could mean new commanders with unique attributes and bonuses we haven't seen yet or commanders with capabilities (as you posted) on both land and sea, or Unique Commanders for Civs, which I would find intriguing (and would probably critique the H**l out of them!) but I think would require naming the Commanders, which there is no sign of them doing.

We do know that Rome also has a unique Commander, but I don't think they do have any signs of names, unfortunately.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/youtube-videos-from-civ-streamers.691337/page-4
It was mentioned in one of the YouTube videos asking the devs questions about the game. And yes, it was confirmed that Naval Commanders appear for the Exploration Age.


We do know that Rome also has a unique Commander, but I don't think they do have any signs of names, unfortunately.

Thanks for the information on the Naval Commanders.

Hopefully, by the Modern Age we will see Combined Arms Commanders that can affect either land or naval units, maybe Air units. I think Air Commanders as a group would be too limited in their effect on the game unless they have, as posted, massively overhauled the entire Air Combat/Unit system.

Rome has a Unique Commander Type, the Legatus. I am sure some other Civs will get something similar - I could well imagine a Modern Age Germany with a unique Panzer Leader giving extra mobility to Armies, for instance, or a Napoleonic-linked Marshal that automatically provides Flanking Bonuses. There are a host of possibilities. What bothers me is that no matter what 'promotions or additions they get, they are so far only identified by graphics and icons, wheras they simply cry out to be named.

Previous Civs, culminating in Civ VI, made huge use of named elements in the game: Great People of all kinds for all Civs and Governors as well as Leaders. Now in Civ VII they apparently are stepping away from that, and reserving Names for Leaders only. I think it is a Step Back, but that's just My Opinion.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/youtube-videos-from-civ-streamers.691337/page-4
It was mentioned in one of the YouTube videos asking the devs questions about the game. And yes, it was confirmed that Naval Commanders appear for the Exploration Age.

so a unit with anchor banner icon is 'admiral' and is the one that form fleets? first I believe it was a kind of early medieval warship like Dromon or Snekjaa?

Not really historical accurate. Sea commanders did exists in Antiquity, Where's Themistocles who led Athenian Navy to victory at Salamis, Gaius Dullius who deliberately an instrument for Romans to won First Punic War? and Agrippa who under Octavianus (a person that would later become Augustus), won Actium for him?

Admiral shows up too lil too late. This unit should show up at all it should be in the late Age 1, same tech as Polyreme.

 

[AntSou]

Unfortunately, I don't believe we have any indication of Phoenicians or Cathaginians in the Antiquity Age and with 6 Antiquity Civs already known it doesn't look good.

I don't expect them on release, but I'm sure we'll get them sooner or later.

Why are you drawing those conclusions? There's 9 Antiquity Civs left. There will be at least one naval oriented Civ in the antiquity, and so far there are none. I think they are more likely than not to show up.