1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Spamming array improvements for one science one energy

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by s0nny80y, Oct 28, 2014.

  1. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    3,116
    Location:
    Not in a Civilization City Atleast
    Acadamies boosted by knowledge + biowells for the health is possible the strongest improvement combo boost them with satellites and you have something even stronger.

    Knowledge should probably be your main tree while you pick out tested virtues from other trees like the colonist from prosperity/ building bonus from industry and affinity from might.
     
  2. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,322
    I do realize that virtues may push you more strongly towards academies, but you won't have that virtue in every game. And flood plains are imbalanced anyways, the same argument can be made for any improvement. An upgraded array on that tile will provide 2 :c5science: + 3 :c5gold:, which is better than the unupgraded academy, but worse than the upgraded one. I'm not saying academies are bad, they're probably still the best improvement in the game, but they do have a cost.

    As for terrascape, yes, you can turn a desert tile into a 2 food/hammer/culture tile, but it still costs 6 energy. That's a trade I'm willing to make sometimes in a production city if no hills are available, but it's not like you want to use terrascapes on grassland, for example. Usually, I'd prefer getting 3 science - 2 energy (plus whatever the tile yields) by building an academy, or +1 sci +1 energy for an array. Unlike civ5, culture has no direct benefit for achieving any victory condition, so there's just not too much going for the terrascape.
     
  3. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,358
    I have the academy and manufactory boosting virtues in every game. Dunno why you don't.
     
  4. Arkangelus

    Arkangelus Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Scotland
    Academies due to maintanence will be best off in cities with multiple diverse Strategic resources, since there's a few % boosts associated with those buildings. Getting them all might not be easy, but the Neurolab is only S4, the Xenonursery H2, both achievable with the Mantle if you're Purity and Supremacy can have the Organ Printer and Hypercore too. For a Supremacy city with Xenomass and Firaxite in range (and bearing in mind Orbital Fabricators are a Supremacy tech you'll want to pick up), that's a 60% boost - up to 65% with the Augmentary quest and a possible extra 5%, however rare it is that you'd take that option, from the Institute.
     
  5. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,568
    Gender:
    Male
    To be frank I don't think that the maintenance cost for Academies is really all that relevant. You get so much money from city connections and Thorium reactors that you should never drop to 0 because of them. And, yes, you will overall have less money to rushbuy other stuff - but apart from early Trade Depots and Mind Stems for Transcendence victory I rarely use rushbuy anyway, so it seems that its rather unimportant for my playstile.
     
  6. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,322
    Because they're just not that strong. Without percentage bonuses for city yields, getting, for example, the -10% leaf tech cost is much better than a +2 science bonus for a single improvement, unless you spam it everywhere. Academies in Civ5 were great because of the national college and all the modifiers pushing them, but here 2 science per academy is pretty much just 2 science. Since they take 10 turns or so to set up, getting enough of them for the bonus to make a big difference takes a very long time.
     
  7. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,358
    Academies in Civ V were limited to great scientists.

    This time you can build them wherever you want. They are still the highest source of science gain you can get from tiles.
     
  8. Autoclave

    Autoclave Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2013
    Messages:
    185
    I was misguided by Civilopedia article about Arrays expanding satelite effect range. It turns out it only expands the sat coverage. :(
     
  9. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    Messages:
    4,754
    Location:
    The cutest of cephalopods
    Academies are good even un-upgraded because Energy is plentiful and useless while Beakers are scarce and important.

    Do arrays need to be worked to get you the orbital range?
     
  10. Question

    Question King

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    945
    Energy is super useful. I think people are underestimating it because purchasing stuff costs 4x the production cost for some reason so its too expensive to purchase much anyway.

    But getting a new colony up and running with dozens of buildings takes forever without purchasing.

    Also more energy lets you spam terrascapes to your hearts content.
     
  11. KiNg_

    KiNg_ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    Energy is very useful but I'd rather build generators with the wonder that adds 2 more yield instead of arrays
     
  12. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,568
    Gender:
    Male
    In the end it might just be too much energy floating around in general. If the budged was more tight until the late game, Arrays might actually be a decent choise.

    As it is Academies are just way more efficient. I had a game where I spammed Terrascapes and Acamdies on every single tile and I was still able to have a huge energy surplus later on.
     
  13. kirbdog

    kirbdog King

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    898
    Definitely the biggest problem in the game is the crazy amount of easy food/hammer/energy. When everything is cheap, you don't get any interesting "guns or butter" situations. Instead it's more like "Give me a hundred. Of everything."
     
  14. KiNg_

    KiNg_ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    Well I suppose that it's balanced by the fact that everyone experiences it the same way. Just like the trade routes, while people may say they are OP I think they're balanced because everyone can use them
     
  15. GAGA Extrem

    GAGA Extrem Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,568
    Gender:
    Male
    Player vs. player: Yes.
    Player vs. AI: Nope.

    It is also poison for the internal balance between the different game mechanics.
     
  16. KiNg_

    KiNg_ Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2014
    Messages:
    46
    Location:
    Johannesburg, South Africa
    Good point
     
  17. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    5,878
    This is once again an issue with trade routes. Once I went down to 1 TR per city with a balance mod, energy is more scarce. You still get a fair amount, but between terraforming costs and purchasing you can use it all up without issue.
     
  18. bhavv

    bhavv Glorious World Dictator

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2006
    Messages:
    7,358
    Academies and Manufactories also give a passive +2 science / production gain.

    So you actually get +5 / +7 from them without / with the virtues that boots them.
     
  19. Arkangelus

    Arkangelus Prince

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2010
    Messages:
    313
    Location:
    Scotland
    I thought that had been debunked as a misunderstanding? I know that Biowells definitely don't passively provide the health, for example.
     
  20. kingsbury

    kingsbury Warlord

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    174
    I'm about 95% sure you need to work a biowell to get the health bonus.
     

Share This Page