Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by IAM, Jan 30, 2010.
Ah, I see. We'll give your opinion the attention it deserves, then. Here's a sheep, jumping rope:
Ya, but you could have a forge and about twenty other buildings up before you have 20 mature towns. I agree with the point, that forges are low-priority in specialized cities, but it's not fair to use a size 20 city with 20 mature towns from the start of the library as an example. Especially if you include free speech for the bonus, but not Universal Sufferage for the bonus, since 20 would cut the build time of the forge by quite a bit (and make it alot more useful in getting the library up).
I see a lot of arguments going back and forth regarding Forges...
Forges are often a great investment, even in commerce cities, but you have to make a careful watch on the status of a city. A commerce city that is pushed to max population in order to maximize usage of commerce tiles will often be hard-pressed to sustain an extra 1 penalty for the city. If proper care is not taken to sustain optimal health, the 1 can often greatly diminish the significance of the production bonus, especially for low-production cities.
The obvious remedy that works for ordinary cities is to whip the city, which temporarily solves the problem by lowering the city's population, but this has obvious side-effects...most importantly, the temporary inability to work a few commerce tiles.
Knowing that you will have a forge in every city also helps in trade strategy. From the early game I know that gems, gold, and silver will get me a total of 6 in every city so those are a priority. Instead of well 'Which cities have a threater... I need dye?'
Which is why I didn't do that. (Go back and look please.)
Folks, I'm not arguing against Forges. All along I've said it should be a cost:benefit decision before making any building in a specialized city. Don't blindly make stuff. Compare to the cost, plus the opportunity cost you're losing. And don't forget to compare to the baseline alternative opportunity which is usually Build or Build .
Ok, well, 20 mature towns with NO free speech (or 14 with free speech, 12 if you have free speech AND all riverside cottages) is still a bit unreslistic of an example. Even having 12-20 cottages up before starting the library is unrealistic since even building a forge, courthouse, and granary first would still give you plenty of time to build a library before reaching size 12 (or 20). (And of course that's a busted build order for a science city by any standards.)
Again, i'm not arguing against the point, forge first is usually a bad idea for science city and certainly isn't always a must have (although it pretty much is always worth it it after levees and universal sufferage). I just think assuming 100 per turn during the library build is an unfair example. 100 per turn is maybe more realistic when deciding between building an observatory or a forge.
Remember, we're not building independant City-states but an empire. Therefore, specialized cities will likely create a generalized EMPIRE, which if it is actually more efficient (I believe it is) is less likely to lose cities.
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