Specialization is for Insects

Well... I think IAM is trying to explain that Generalization is much more versitile than the Specialized Civ...

Example: two cavemen; Bob and John: Bob only eats Apples. he has developed a way to maximized their yield. BUT John eats a variety of different fruits... what happens if Appels disappear?
 
always at one point in my game I simply alt+ left click my capital city bar, set my governor to production, commerce, research or growth or a mix of any these, alt+build a building or a unit.

When 10 or more cities are focused and working on one goal be it military production, commerce, espionage, etc I noticed I get quicker results and achieve goals faster particularly when it comes to warfare both offense and defense.
 
I think you should play a game on forum to prove your strategy works well.
 
The man makes a point.

Just completed a domination victory with Justinian on Emperor/Marathon/Fractal/Standard/Random/Huts on.

All cities had:

Cottage spam + lib/uni/observatory/monastries of all present religions (3)

AND

Mine/Workshop (guilds, chem) spam in equal measure.

AND

Barracks/Theatre/Hippo

INCLUDING Oxford/Wall St ("specialised" by settling/shrine).

Stage 1: Work Slavery in all cities - Military approach - take out Dutch Dan.
Stage 2: Work cottages in all cities - rebuild
Stage 3: Work Slavery in all cities - take out Angry Alex
Stage 4: Work cottage in all cities - rebuild
Stage 5: Work Hammers in all cities - wonder spam
Stage 6: Work Cottages in all cities - tech lead to rifling
Stage 7: Work Hammers/Slavery in all cities - eliminate Moaning Mansa, Vile Victoria and her vassal Mental Monte
Stage 8: AD1620 Domination (didn't even need to bother with Ennui Ethiopian)

Now perhaps this was "sub-optimal" and I could have won faster/better but I only had three "specialised" cities (in an empire, on 15 cities before the final push), and they were only specialised because I got two shrines in one (therefore wall st), and settled my scientists in my GL city (therefore oxford), and had to build Ironworks somewhere (therefore highest hammer city - but it was a choice between 39/40/42 for my top three hammer cities, which were also pumping out beakers). Spiritual perfect - switch between Org. Religion for wonder/infa, Free for tech, and Theocracy for military.

For the record, it was my first non-Earth18 Emperor win. And it could have been b/c I properly applied other tips I've picked up (running a 0% slider, willing to trade diamonds for lead), but it does seem to fit IAM's strategy to the letter.

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Off-topic, but given other TrollTroy's thread

Re: Acronymns - What is "OP"? Original something? Something person?
 
Having an empire all doing the exact same thing in the exact same way would be like having a swiss army knife where every blade is exactly the same.
hehe, "pwned" as the saying goes. :p
 
Not sure what level OP is playing at, but non-specialization is the killer on my Emperor games.

You should always have some hybrid cities with both hammers and commerce, but the fact of the matter is without specialization, you nullify national wonders such as Oxford, HE, Ironworks, and Wall Street (you can't always go with corps or have a far spread shrine).

The second issue with this is the sheer # of :hammers: that are REQUIRED to devote to multiplier buildings. Since you have only so many :commerce: coming in from all sources, you NEED to have all multipliers working in all cities so that you're properly boosting ALL functions of your empire. You have to build library/market/grocer/univ/bank/observatory/forge/courthouse/factory in ALL ur cities.

Of course, once you dominate an entire continent or overtake 3 civs, this becomes less needed. But if you're doing so that early on, perhaps a diff level increase is in order.

And just how would one of these legs magically fall off of the Stool of Power? Generally speaking, a heavy CE is fueled mostly by a cottage spam bureau capital which better be able to defend itself. SE is nearly impossible for AI to dismantle the science sources since you can swiftly replant farms. So it's not very easy for the AI to snag that leg. Military should always be a priority and with a specialized Heroic Epic focusing entirely on food and hammers, you should have plenty of military. Not to mention the hybrid cities spitting out units sporadically and any farm heavy whip/draft cities for the icing on the military cake. Hows about GP Farm? I've never had a game in my 5 years of CIV where my GP farm was in danger of being pillaged or captured.

Really, the only way the AI can damage one of your "stool legs" is via military. If you know how to play CIV, then you know you need military. Also, the loss of 1 city in a non-specialized civ is the loss of more :hammers: than you want to count (imagine losing courthouse/market/grocer/bank/library/univ). All those :hammers: coulda gone to military and not even lose the city in the first place.

NWP20 said:
Now perhaps this was "sub-optimal" and I could have won faster/better but I only had three "specialised" cities (in an empire, on 15 cities before the final push), and they were only specialised because I got two shrines in one (therefore wall st), and settled my scientists in my GL city (therefore oxford)

If you've specialized 3 cities, then you didn't do what the OP posted (originally). I'm pretty sure most players only specialize 3-5 cities and the rest are hybrids. Specialization is only optimal for Oxford city, Wall Street City (specialization not even required in many cases), HE city, Ironworks City, and maybe another cottage spammed city or 2. After that, hybrids are generally the best way to go in most situations. The ability to support itself, provide a bit of :science:, and produce units/spies infrequently is all I ask of 2/3 of my empire.

That's still specialization. Try playing the game again without specializing Oxford, Wall Street, HE, Ironworks and you'll see the story changes significantly. Also, your neighbors greatly affect the ability to spam multiplier buildings in all cities. If you've got Mansa Musa, Gandhi, and Roosevelt as neighbors, then you can easily devote :hammers: to all those buildings. But try that strategy when you've got Shaka, Monty, and Catherine as neighbors. The lack of units due to devoting :hammers: to buildings will spell almost certain doom even on diffs as low as Prince.
 
Having an empire all doing the exact same thing in the exact same way would be like having a swiss army knife where everyblade is exactly the same.

KatieKat: The different tools on the Swiss Army knife represent the different aspects/capabilities of each city. cork screw, saw, blade, screw driver, tooth pick, etc. Each city is it's own Swiss Army knife. Mines, watermills, cottages, library, barracks, etc.

NWP20 congrats on the win.
 
Specialization is map/game dependent, but will work in all situations. However, lacking specialization means that there are situations where building all those buildings will spell doom
 
KatieKat: The different tools on the Swiss Army knife represent the different aspects/capabilities of each city. cork screw, saw, blade, screw driver, tooth pick, etc. Each city is it's own Swiss Army knife. Mines, watermills, cottages, library, barracks, etc.

NWP20 congrats on the win.

Who needs 20 Swiss Army knives?
 
Who needs 20 Swiss Army knives?

Me. Twenty swiss army knives with the corkscrew out opens twenty bottles of wine simultaneously. Twenty swiss army knives with the knife out cuts twenty pieces of cheese. The ability to use my twenty knives to open twenty bottles of wine and then twenty pieces of cheese in TWO TURNS is better than waiting TWENTY TURNS for two knives to do the same.


NB - not that I agree with IAM, ad infinitum: just saying he has a point.
 
If anything, that's mainly an argument for building the HE, Ironworks, and any eventual military academies in different cities from each other (something which many otherwise specialization-loving players promote)... unless you mean you have 20 cities that can produce contemporary military units in two turns each. :O
 
KatieKat: The different tools on the Swiss Army knife represent the different aspects/capabilities of each city. cork screw, saw, blade, screw driver, tooth pick, etc. Each city is it's own Swiss Army knife. Mines, watermills, cottages, library, barracks, etc
I disagree...

Your methaphor is more like having all your cities being a knife. You don't have a bottle opener or screwdriver or tooth pick in there... All your cities are knifes because all you ask of them is to be able to cut, so when you need a bottle opener you will have to wrestle to open it using a knife, when you need a screwdriver you will use the knife, and you will even have to use it as a tooth pick. Your argument stands on the fact that you can use a knife to do all things, and even if ill suited to the task you can do OK as long as you have 20 knifes.

The real suiss army knife (=your empire) would be specialization. You will have a gold city (knife) a GP city (screwdriver) a military production city (tooth pick), and so on.

In other words, you claim that avoiding specialization makes all your cities good at everything, but you are quite mistaken. No-specialization only makes all your cities equals. Meaning it makes them equally bad at everything.
 
Philosophically, I have problems with the quote. It's supposed to come from R.A.H's author avatar / ubermensch Lazarus Long. Yes, the superman who can do no wrong and is immortal to boot can well have that attitude. For us mere mortals who must live in, depend on and support a community of other mere mortals specialisation is the way to go. We all just have to specialise in different things.

In game I aways start off with my 'axis of evil', The settler/worker pump, unit pump and cool stuff pump. I like specialised cities as I can then know what each part of my empire is doing.

Although a play style based on the works of a known author sounds interesting. Douglas Adams, anybody?
 
Me. Twenty swiss army knives with the corkscrew out opens twenty bottles of wine simultaneously. Twenty swiss army knives with the knife out cuts twenty pieces of cheese. The ability to use my twenty knives to open twenty bottles of wine and then twenty pieces of cheese in TWO TURNS is better than waiting TWENTY TURNS for two knives to do the same.


NB - not that I agree with IAM, ad infinitum: just saying he has a point.

He only has a point if you ignore the entire picture (i.e. specialize your focus :-p).

First of all, you wrongfully assume a non-specialized city has the same capabilities as a specialized city. A non-specialized city is not going to be as efficient at any one task. Switching function will result in sub-optimal focus (not developing cottages, not making most efficient use of the whip, not growing optimally in order to suit the current need, etc). So 20 turns would not be an accurate number given the fact that a specialized city is more efficient (say 25%, which is on the low end). Your example also ignores reasonable numbers. You are saying a civ that has 20 cities only has 1 city of each type? It's more likely that it has roughly 25%-33% of one each type roughly (commerce, hammers, hybrid, and usually one GP farm). So even taking the low end of that to support your argument, how long does it take 5 cities operating at 25% greater efficiency to finish those functions? It takes them 3 turns, and there are still 10 other cities free to do whatever they want.

Second, you ignore the investment necessary for those non-specialized cities. Hammers in every city wasted on forges, markets, libraries, etc are costly. That production could have been dedicated to any number of more valuable projects (troop production, courthouse building, wealth generation, etc).

Third, you ignore tasks that cannot be farmed out to multiple cities at one time. Generating GP in the short-term requires one city running numerous specialists. Building Wonders/Projects requires one city with excellent production. The same goes for spaceship components.

Lastly, you ignore the value of what the other 18 cities are doing in your example. If you are only interested in doing 2 things, then why aren't your other 18 cities contributing to that regardless of how sub-optimally they may do so? And if you aren't interested in only 2 things, then dedicating 20 cities to 2 tasks for 2 turns means they are making no progress on other goals.
 
I'm not sold out that specialization is so absolutely necessary and that it should be done to extreme degrees (i.e. never work a cottage on a production city). but the extreme opposite idea, i.e., the OP, is just plain bad.


but none of the above wins you games. rifling first win games, a sucessfull rush wins you games... blocking wins you games. diplomacy wins games. how you get there is not all that important, as long as you win.
 
Heh, as technology and society advances specialization increases. Humans now (the successful ones anyway) often spend decades specializing in one field. I say generalization is for subsistence farmers.

The same pretty much goes for Civ. When I played chieftain I built everything in every city and didn't know how to specialize. Now I designate science, GP and production cities but I still spam way to many buildings so I play at Monarch. The Deity players specialize.
 
but none of the above wins you games. rifling first win games, a sucessfull rush wins you games... blocking wins you games. diplomacy wins games. how you get there is not all that important, as long as you win.

I always thought that it was HOW you win that makes the game fun and is, therefore, the more important focus. ;) And you need some way to get to rifling first. So all the discussion about specializing definitely figures into that :D
 
Non-specialization isn't about cloning cities. It's not a a strategy to ensure 'all cities have 30 hammers' or such. Not about absolutes.

Geography/terrain dictates a big part of what each city has. A city in flood plains or one in jungle or one in hilly terrain will have marginal differences. But some buildings like library are useful all over. Early border pops is an important factor, opening up the way for universities, +25% beaker boost, and running 2 scientist.

Perhaps the 12 ballerinas with flaming machetes is a better comparison than the Swiss Army knife.

If you like bean counting play style then there are plenty of strategy articles for that. This is one right fun way to win. Specialization = death fight fire with water
 
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