[Speculation] Italian States/Papal States/Venice

[steveg700]

A problem is the thing Venice truly represents is Naval Trade, and I'm trying to steer away from that given Portugal has taken that and it's been called "the" naval trade civ.

I would submit that sea trade routes are going to be a sufficiently broad and perennial part of the game that more than one civ can have a maritime UA. And Portugal probably won't have a monopoly anyways, because harbors will probably facilitate trade routes, making Carthage's UA at least as advantageous as Portugal's. I wouldn't hold any statement about Portugal being "the" naval trade civ to preclude anything.

Portugal's UA kicks in some extra money (doesn't even sound terribly "ulimate" IMO). There are other ways to go.

UA: Lifeblood of Venice. Military units have +10% combat strength near a trade route. Civilian units withdraw into the space of a nearby military unit when attacked.

UA: Masters of Coin. Great Merchants can be used twice before being expended. Upon researching Guilds, receive a free Great Merchant.

Of course, it's all very open-ended, with many ways to skin the cat (not that Venetians would ever skin a cat).

 

[Beefie]

How about canals as a UI? can only be built on coastal tiles adjacent to a city, provide production and gold, then tourism later on. Would encourage Venice to found cities out on peninsulas and even those 1-tile island cities the AI always spam could become quite powerful.

 

[jye42]

This is my idea for italy

Civ: Venice
Leader: Francesco Dandolo
UA: Mercenary Armies - All allied city states grant units, military city states grant double.
UU: Condottieri - Crossbow Replacement (1/2 gold cost to purchase)
UB: Collegantia- Replaces Bank (gives all bank benefits & additional trade income)

 

[spacedinosaur]

How about canals as a UI? can only be built on coastal tiles adjacent to a city, provide production and gold, then tourism later on. Would encourage Venice to found cities out on peninsulas and even those 1-tile island cities the AI always spam could become quite powerful.

While I love the idea of canals, I feel anyone should be able to build functioning canals, not just one civ (considering the US and UK have built the two most famous canals). Some sort of one- or two-tile island UI could be interesting, though.

 

[Xen]

This is my idea for italy

Civ: Venice
Leader: Francesco Dandolo
UA: Mercenary Armies - All allied city states grant units, military city states grant double.
UU: Condottieri - Crossbow Replacement (1/2 gold cost to purchase)
UB: Collegantia- Replaces Bank (gives all bank benefits & additional trade income)

Venice was famous for having the best actual military in Italy - its use of Condotta troops were generally to augment their true military, or get a particularly notable general. Giving them it as a UU seems out of place.

A pikeman with the marine ability, and perhaps a buff when attacking from water though... now that would be interesting. If Venice was going to be in, which I'm still skeptical of (but would welcome)

 

[IkM]

This is my idea for italy

Civ: Venice
Leader: Francesco Dandolo
UA: Mercenary Armies - All allied city states grant units, military city states grant double.
UU: Condottieri - Crossbow Replacement (1/2 gold cost to purchase)
UB: Collegantia- Replaces Bank (gives all bank benefits & additional trade income)

Venice should be trade civ not military. sea trade UA would be the best, IMO.

 

[Dragonflow]

This is my idea for italy

Civ: Venice
Leader: Francesco Dandolo
UA: Mercenary Armies - All allied city states grant units, military city states grant double.
UU: Condottieri - Crossbow Replacement (1/2 gold cost to purchase)
UB: Collegantia- Replaces Bank (gives all bank benefits & additional trade income)

I like the UA, although I think it would've been more suitable for somebody like Carthage.
The Condottieri should be a knight replacement as most of them fought on horseback in heavy armour.
I created an idea for a Condottieri UU some time ago in this thread:


Condottieri:
18
4
from defeated units
25% chance that defeated enemy unit joins your side
25% chance that defeated condottiere joins the enemy
120 cost
500 cost to purchase
Requires horses
Replaces Knight, only Italians may build it

 

[Il Corvo Bianco]

Venice was famous for having the best actual military in Italy - its use of Condotta troops were generally to augment their true military, or get a particularly notable general. Giving them it as a UU seems out of place.

A pikeman with the marine ability, and perhaps a buff when attacking from water though... now that would be interesting. If Venice was going to be in, which I'm still skeptical of (but would welcome)

Depends on the period, though. Go more towards the 18th century, and Savoy is called the Prussia of Italy. Go back to the 14th-15th, and Milan is mauling everyone in sight. It changed quite often.

 

[Scaramanga]

Depends on the period, though. Go more towards the 18th century, and Savoy is called the Prussia of Italy. Go back to the 14th-15th, and Milan is mauling everyone in sight. It changed quite often.

I agree and much of it has to do with geography. Venice was finally able to surpass Genoa in maritime trade because it had a more defendable location. Just reading the Wikipedia entry on Italian city-states reveals what an inane idea it is to have any of these civs. Some people just can't take criticism.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Depends on the period, though. Go more towards the 18th century, and Savoy is called the Prussia of Italy. Go back to the 14th-15th, and Milan is mauling everyone in sight. It changed quite often.

Even at the height of Milan, though, Venice was likely more powerful (overall in wealth and resources, perhaps not in generalship), they just essentially chose to stay out.

 

[Dragonflow]

An interesting thing was posted yesterday in the 9 new civs thread.

But Portugal has already been revealed as having European style too. These are the revealed civs, with their city art styles:

Poland- European
Assyria- Middle Eastern
Brazil- American
Portugal- European
Zulu- We haven't seen a city of theirs yet, so they may be Middle Eastern like Ethiopia or Songhai, or they may get a new African city art.

We're missing a Mediterranean and an Asian civ. The other two civs could be of any type of city art.

I think this could be another hint at a possible Italian civ along with Menzies's city-state theory.

 

[sukritact]

I think this could be another hint at a possible Italian civ along with Menzies's city-state theory.

As much as I'd love to see Italy/Venice, this really is grasping at straws IMHO.

 

[VilePilot]

They should add venice as a civ but do this for a UA:


33% more culture needed to adopt social policies per city built
15% less culture needed per social policy


Or something similar to that.


Give whatever cities they found italian names. Make medici the leader. Best civ ever.

 

[JSMCAG]

Eeeeehhhh... I dunno - I can see what you're trying to do here, having Venice to be a cultural Civilization that doesn't expand much. This, however, wouldn't probably work...

First of all, this would make Venice and India the only two Civilizations that give a direct malus through their UA - and people don't like that about India, so I doubt they would like that for Venice.
Then, Poland has already a free Social Policy every era - can this compete with that? And Poland has them regardless of their size! In any case, the two are really closely connected, and would step on each other's toes. Compare to other Civilizations, they all have very unique distinct uniques, with the possible exception of the Zulu and Germany, but who knows, that might just get changed....

 

[Louis XXIV]

They should add venice as a civ but do this for a UA:


33% more culture needed to adopt social policies per city built
15% less culture needed per social policy


Or something similar to that.


Give whatever cities they found italian names. Make medici the leader. Best civ ever.

I don't think they would call this civ Venice if it has a Medici leader.

 

[VilePilot]

and people don't like that about India, .

the problem with India is that their UA doesn't translate well into a OCC. My idea for Venice would.

What is Venice supposed to do with all those social policies to win with one city?

Cultural victory?

 

[Nujabes]

What is Venice supposed to do with all those social policies to win with one city?

 

[sukritact]

Cultural victory?

They can't. Revamped culture victory remember?

 

[VilePilot]

They can't. Revamped culture victory remember?

oh I didn't read that. damn.


I don't know what the UA would be, but something specifically geared towards a OCC would be awesome especially if it further geared towards the patronage tree and city state diplomacy etc.

That's like the central change of the entire expansion.

Well I'm sorry I don't know what to say.

 

[Nujabes]

oh I didn't read that. damn.

That's like the central change of the entire expansion.