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Spiderterror - Spiders need a nerf ?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Aradiel, Aug 6, 2007.

  1. eerr

    eerr Emperor

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    for humans yes, but this is yet another thing that computers will be unable to adapt to
     
  2. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    i dont see how the AI isnt dealing with it for you, on any difficulty higher than noble the AIs will have hunters very early, they love spamming them
     
  3. velk

    velk Chieftain

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    On marathon it takes hundreds of turns before most of the AIs have any significant amount of hunters, and 'dominate' isn't a term I would use for a newbie hunter vs a level 8 spider.
     
  4. giddion

    giddion Crusader

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    I went through this just recently. I even had a section of map closed off by mountains where I left it for barbarians to spawn, this provided a training ground for my troops and a breeding ground for spiders.

    The spiders are very good scouts.

    I believe they should keep the hidden nationality status but if they are placed in a city you own then this should be lost.

    They should not be entitled to the City Attack promotion. Maybe have another promotion instead like Giant Spider grows to Spider Queen (but only one allowed), the Spider Queen can then make the Spider Den for silk (max 3 silk dens). Maybe you need to learn a skill to commercialise spiders for silk.

    The spider den is broken, take city, make it +1:) and produce silk which can then be traded or just given to the other civs (something I found very useful). Silk becomes a throw away comodity.

    The spawn rate needs to be reduced.


    A tactic I found best was use the spiders to kill the troops in a city wait for the barbarians to take it then take it from the barbarians. No war against your neighbors needed.
     
  5. vorshlumpf

    vorshlumpf Emperor

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    Yeah, I've done the same. Pretty cheesy. What's really sad about this is that spiders are no longer mysterious and rare. They're a mass-produced, production-free unit.
    My spiders have been dominating the AI hunters, barbarian Lizardmen included. I'm on turn 800 or so of an admittedly whacky marathon game (Emperor level), and nothing can stop my spiders when I decide to send them in.

    Ideas to make spiders better:

    - reduce the spawn chance of baby spiders (doubling it for Svarts)
    - make babies remain as babies until they kill a unit (and give them invisibility back)
    - only have babies spawn when a spider hits with a first strike. What gave me this idea was the animation for first strike - the webbing. This functionality would represent the spider capturing prey alive - the idea being live prey is required for spider eggs to hatch. Svart spiders could be given an extra first strike to increase their chances.
    - make baby spiders barbarian at first
    - make baby spiders barbarian and completely invisible (like shadows) and unable to attack. This way they'll be wandering around until eventually, BAM!, and giant spider has matured right under your nose. heheheh
     
  6. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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  7. Vulcans

    Vulcans Prince

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    not that hard to get hold of. first tec hunting, second tec AH.

    then a pile of hunters with subdue animal, next thing you know you have a army of giant spiders, wolves, lions, bears, gorillers etc.

    you need to get those subdue animal hunters fast to get the animals before the AI kill off all the precious wildlife
     
  8. giddion

    giddion Crusader

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    I think it is more that you can add them to a city as silk. After a breading program you can have as much silk as cities, and against the AI this is silly. You just give them silk as tribute (since it is worthless). This is a mechanism to manipulate the game.

    The spider army part is true, they are strong at the start but weaken later. But, in any case a spider should NOT get the City Attack skill bonus, maybe improved poison instead.

    The Silk Pen in a city should become a finite resource that runs out after X turns.
     
  9. brainpan

    brainpan Wild Potato

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    I honestly have no idea, but I'll share what I know.

    In RA Salvator's fantasy novels, there are evil cave-dwelling elves who worship a spider goddess. IIRC they are sometimes turned into spiders as a punishment. Viconia, leader of the Svaltalfar, is also the name of a character in Salvator's stories.

    So my wild guess is the Svaltalfar/spider connection owes to Salvator, an author he borrowed from, or the Dungeons and Dragons game.
     
  10. brainpan

    brainpan Wild Potato

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    Drizzt's evil sister Viconia.

     
  11. Sureshot

    Sureshot Goddess

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    Faeryl is in the same books
     
  12. brainpan

    brainpan Wild Potato

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    I "got it on" with Viconia once in the old Baldur's Gate game. Hey, I had to do it! It made her more loyal to me! :blush:
     
  13. brainpan

    brainpan Wild Potato

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    I didn't know that, or maybe I have forgotten. It has been quite a while since I have read Salvator. I should do that again soon. :)
     

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