Spies

[Twiglet]

I don't usually build any spies, but in my latest game (random leader - got Vicky, Monarch, Pangaea map, random sealevel/climate, normal speed) I screwed up: took out Freddy early on and crippled Caesar, palled up to Mansa Musa and Hatty but let Mao and Tokugawa both get further ahead of me than I could cope with - boxed in by Mao and he was too far ahead militarily. Diplo was out (Mao and Tok loved each other and hated me - they were the two biggest civs) and I was nowhere culturally. So I consolidated the land I had/could take and went into spacerace mode. Which I was clearly losing to Mao by some distance, so as a last ploy of desperation I decided what the heck, build some spies and sabotage Mao's production.

So, one Kremlin and some spies later, I've identified the cities where the expensive bits are being made. The manual says my spies can "destroy production" - however I don't even have this option available (it's non-pressable), all I can do is try to steal plans. When I move the spy to another city (making an aircraft) it does let me "destroy production". But this only seems to destroy the production for one turn. I'd read the manual as meaning that if this succeeded (and it's only marginally over 50% likely to) all the production on that unit would be lost (otherwise why would this be useful at all, let alone "quite devastating when a city is just a couple of turns away from producing a wonder".

Are spies todally useless or am I missing something obvious - very grateful to anyone who can help clue me in. How come I don't even get the option to "destroy production" in the cities it's going to be useful (the ones that are losing me the game), and how come when I do it doesn't seem to do what it says on the tin?

Many thanks in advance for any help you guys can give!

 

[Bierp]

You won't get the "destroy" option if you don't have the gold to pay for it. (and it can be pretty expensive.)

I'll let others talk about how much damage it does. It's not 100%, but I haven't used a spy in a while and I don't recall how much it is. (I have used that tactic to win before though.)

B

 

[Sisiutil]

Instead of using spies to sabotage production in a city--which can be VERY expensive--try slowing your enemy down in other ways. For a mere 200 gold, a spy can sabotage a key resource such as aluminum, uranium, oil, and so on. Happiness resources are also good sabotage targets. You should reserve, if possible, a horde of gold to sabotage something key, like a very expensive SS part or the Space Elevator, which you should definitely build yourself in this situation.

And don't underestimate the value of the spy's information-gathering ability. They've shown me that while the AI is very good at getting the basic SS parts (casing, thrusters) built, they often don't have very good production cities and get bogged down producing the more expensive parts.

You could also try to use diplomacy. See if you can entice another civ to go to war with your main competitor.

 

[Twiglet]

Well there's a lightbulb right there. Of course - I can use my spies to kill his happiness which should set him back nicely. Thanks for Yet Another Great Tip Suddenly spies seem a whole lot more useful - maybe I should use them more often (in games that last long enough - often I've either won or lost by the stage they appear).

I didn't realise sabotage cost GP (double-d'oh!) which explains why the button is greyed out

I can't bribe anyone to go to war with him (a usual gambit of mine is to bribe civA to war on civB, then declare on civA myself, leaving me ahead diplomatically with civB who is nonetheless weakened by the conflict). I've been trying since before the middle ages I think this game is lost to be honest but I'm curious as to how far I can claw it back - but I'll certainly remember the spies kill happiness tip for future games

 

[voek]

Sabotage all his mines and high food recources. Oh, and if he is so powerfull expect to be invaded after a few failed attempts

It's GNP btw, and not GP, or are you sacrificing any people

 

[Twiglet]

> It's GNP btw, and not GP, or are you sacrificing any people

Ahhh...that's where I'm going wrong...

 

[wioneo]

Remeber that if you kill one civilization's happiness, you are killing there friends' happiness, too. You might want to try sabotaing(200 gold each) the resources that a weaker civilization is trading to your enemy. I usually send 4 spies on a rampage through their lands and anihalate all happiness. Then I start on farms. Miserable starving people are much easier to kill than happy fat ones.

 

[Rast]

I love spies. I use them almost exlusively as scouts, though I do sabotage sometimes when I want to slow down another civ a bit.

Scouting spies are awesome because..

- They're invisible. The other civ doesn't know you're checking them out, like they do when you send a scout unit out w/ open borders.
- Don't need open borders. This is the only way to get any visibility at all inside civs hostile to you and some civs that don't like to trade maps to anybody (like alexander)
- You get visibility inside the cities. You can see what they're building, you can see if they're under a lot of cultural pressure, if they're close to being unhappy or unhealthy, etc.
- And, best of all, as long as your spies just scout they'll never get caught. Oftentimes I'll send a spy or two ahead of an SOD just so I can see what the target cities are doing (doing this is how I found out that the AI tends to mash the hell out of the whip and draft buttons when it sees a big stack heading toward a city, also you can see them moving reinforcements and such up to the front without risking a visible unit)

 

[eric_]

And, best of all, as long as your spies just scout they'll never get caught.

Aren't they visible to commandos?

[edit]Heh, I think I'm thinking of Rise of Nations[/edit]

 

[OceansEleven]

Yeah, spies are good for destroying resources, which I love they do. Only bad thing is if they have like 4 of the resource, then your in a predicament. I think you can only build like 3 spies max? Not sure if that's only for a while. Destorying resources, messing up their trade, oh yeah.

 

[eric_]

Four spies are allowed at any given time.

 

[Sisiutil]

Excellent points, Rast. Everyone seems to focus on the few "action buttons" available for spies and forget that the primary function of a spy in the game is the same one they have in the real world: information gathering. In war, as you point out, their information is invaluable.

I also find them very useful for peacetime victories as well, such as space race and cultural. Spies tell me if my rivals are close to finishing a wonder I want/need, how well-disposed they are to building space ship parts, and so on. I can adjust my builds and tactics accordingly, since I know whether I need to chop-rush, gold-rush, or pop-rush things, or to save my resources for a later need.

When I'm pursuing a peaceful victory I get very wary about being attacked. I often find the AI likes to gather an "invasion force" in one of its coastal cities. I sometimes leave a spy there and check in with her every turn. If the armada suddenly disappears from its home port, I can shift my own forces to intercept, since the AI is fond of attacking the closest point on the map.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

I also like the resource denial mode for spies as well as their scout role.

Now to move slightly OT, is anyone else po'd that you can't go commie and steal your way to victory anymore? i really miss stealing techs.

 

[Sisiutil]

I also like the resource denial mode for spies as well as their scout role.

Now to move slightly OT, is anyone else po'd that you can't go commie and steal your way to victory anymore? i really miss stealing techs.

What I miss is not being able to buy a city into revolt. It makes a late-game conquest SO much faster. Though I suppose it's somewhat unrealistic.

 

[Aleksadr]

On the military screen your spies are visible to your opponents if you have them in their borders. Its annoying that this was not fixed in the patch.