*Spoiler*Game 6-2 Persia - Now Closed

Great win SirPleb! Seems like I was ahead military/land-wise, but you scored an excellent cultural victory! Maybe if I had planned for cultural, I would have been "near" your date. Now I had a humiliated loss. Anyway, as I said it was fun, and maybe one day I'll rival you. :D
 
Double post due to user error; please ignore. Or delete (if moderator).
 
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PREDATOR [civ3mac] Panther 1.29

After entering the Industrial Ages in 870ad (free nationalism) w about 15.000 cp I finished the Iroquois and started to cram as much cities as possible in the available space. Each of them building/hurrying library, temple, cathedral. The productive cities completed the full set of cultural buildings and then built markets, banks, etc.

I always sold luxuries and techs to the AIs, but they warred among each other and the most I got from them was about 400 gpt. 1500ad I entered Modern Times (free rocketry), 1530 computers were done and 1560 miniaturization and The Internet. This gave a final push to our culture development:

1020: 20.390
1210: 30.128
1370: 50.104
1500: 75.269
1600: Cultural Domination with Firaxis Score 7121.

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In the end I was very close to the domination limit and stopped expansion on the other continent, which would have been easily possible.
 
Tao, that's a terrific overall game - almost a double win. In retrospect, you were in control of yourt approach the entire way. Congratulations on a great score.
 
[ptw] 1.27f Open Class

Puppeteer CFC Game 6-2, started 10-20-2003

SPOILER WARNING: This post includes post-industrial information through to the end of the game.

I didn't take notes while I was playing like I did in GOTM 24. This was all written after my win from memory and checking various game saves.

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Red circle is the palace in Rome, green circle is the original FP in Antioch.

The above map is from the end of game, 1830AD. The following map is more representative of the bulk of the game. It's from 1635AD before the Egypt/Iroquois war (Thebes/Hoover is my city between the two Egyptian cities):
Puppeteer-6-2-1635ad-mm.jpg


Puppeteer-6-2-1830ad-culture.jpg


Exploration/expansion: I settled on the spot. I sent one warrior towards what turned out to be Rome, then circled around the lake clockwise. Another warrior went south I think and one went east. In GOTM 24 I had my scout warriors mapping the whole island, but I wound up having them all 30+ turns away when everyone had mapmaking and was trading TMs and me needing them for a war, so this time I wanted to scout thoroughly but limit it to places I'm going to expand soon and not go far past other civs' borders and have them close enough to home to help in fights. I settled 3 cities in my first ring (not RCP, though...at least not intentionally as I don't count the distance but look for the best place) and then expanded east to cut off the north/south lands at the lake/ocean chokepoint. I thought Iroquois was southeast because that's where I met their scout, but by the time I explored the peninsula I had already choked off the north/south with cities and I knew the peninsula was mine. (I like choking off areas like that, and it worked very very well this time.) I put 3 cities down there and expanded the borders quickly to claim all the land. There was a brief time when all the other civs had settler pairs trying to pass through my chokepoint, but I was able to blockade most of them. I don't recall if I demanded anyone to leave, but there were no wars over that incident or the peninsula. I scratchbuilt my FP in Antioch over by the choke point; it wasn't ideal but it made a halfway decent ring. I knew I wanted my Palace in Rome since the first time I traded TMs with them. I eventually did so with a leader. I kinda wanted to move the FP, but I wasn't sure if it was possible and didn't really want to abandon a city even if it were possible. I would've liked to have Iroquois' core as it was set up well, but I didn't touch their core until very late game. I didn't build any galleys until my expansion was complete. I had the Great Lighthouse and quickly found England without suiciding. That galley was built on my east coast and it was lucky how fast I found them. I soon realized the two contintinents couldn't reach each other before Astronomy and I kept maps and contacts to myself until then. I don't recall if I did many tech trades between the continents because that was around the time I became the leader and wanted to keep the others well behind. I do remember selling Education to Carthage at the earliest opportunity to obsolete his Great Library. I think Iroquois was first to research Astronomy, and I was able to take everyone's gold and get a deadend tech or two trading WMs and contacts.

Trades/Reputation: I believe I kept my reputation fully honorable until very late in the game when I broke an alliance with France against Iroquois because of heavy, heavy WW. Mid and late game I razed some enemy cities in India and Iroquois, so much the world didn't like me too much. However I hardly traded with anyone at all. I had enough happiness in my own lands and didn't want to benefit my competitors. The only techs I traded after the AA was taking a tech or two during peace and gifting Nationalism to Carthage for a proxy war.

Culture flips: Unfortunately I only got one culture-flipped city the whole game, but of course I didn't lose any. The French had taken Helipolis somewhere along the way, and being far from France and close to Rome it flipped fairly late in the game.

Wars: The Roman and Egyptian wars were for territorial gain purposes. The other wars were to smack down a cultural threat or it was something they initiated.

Roman war: In the middle/late ancient age Rome attacked me at about the time I was ready to attack him to expand and demand techs. Silly Caesar. I allied Egypt against him and we took most of his empire. I was going to leave him with a city or two, get tech and then finish him off later, but by the time I got there he had nothing to give me so I finished him off since I wanted to move my palace to Rome, and his remaining cities were in my future first ring.

Egypt / American wars: Not long after wiping out Rome I attacked Egypt to take some more cities for my new core. I don't recall exactly what happened and when, but by the time this was all over Egypt was left with two separate cities and I had 3 or 4 American cities. I don't remember if I took the American cities from Egypt or if I went to war with America, but I think I warred with America a bit.

Indian war: Late middle ages/early industrial ages India was threatening to stay at more than half of my culture and was advancing on Carthage, so I had to slow him down. I settled two beachead cities on the east coast of the other continent and took several captured Indian cities and razed one or two. That did the trick; he kept after the Celts and Carthage for most of the rest of the game but never threatened me culturally again.

England war: Late IA/ealry MA england sent a stack of units into my other-continent territory in an obvious sneak attack. England was no threat culturally, and I didn't really want to waste time fighting them, but Lizzy foolishly pressed ahead. I didn't go after her cities but wasted all units in sight (softening up with spare artillery first) and used bombers to nearly level one of her captured Carthage towns. I later demanded that city for peace and eventually gifted it back to Carthage. Early in the war I was annoyed by her ships bombarding my useless coastal tiles; I put out a few destroyers and battleships and ended that. This war lasted past the Iroquois war because it was only a minor annoyance and was keeping Lizzy off Hannibal's back.

Iroquois / Egypt war: When I was in late IA/early MA Iroquois tried to sneak attack me at a couple of weakly defended cities near my core. I saw it coming and beefed up the defenses in the towns he was heading for. But I didn't look closely enough and his stack of cavs doubled back and took Thebes which only had one or two inf defending, and I lost Hoover's :smoke:. I describe the rest the Iroquois battle in the Goverment section because it caused heavy WW for me. Egypt also foolishly declared on me about the same time (don't recall if they were allies), so I took Cleo's last two towns. By the way, I considered Iroquois and America the only remaining culture threats, and I was going to attack Iroquois soon anyway. I kept Iroquois' non-core cities and the Hanging Garden capitol city of Salamanca. I razed the other core cities and backfilled with settlers. America apparently had a settler ready and plopped down, too.

Proxy wars: During and after my India war I helped prop up Carthage and Celts to keep the other continent checked in power a bit because India and England kept picking on these two. I gifted Carthage tons of resources and gifted at different times 3 of their core cities back to them after having taken them from their aggressors. I also gifted him Nationalism for riflemen defense. I gifted Celts resources for a while, but they foolishly entered into an embargo against me during the Iroquois/Egypt war and because of it were polished off by India during the embargo. I really thought Carthage was going to fall late game, but they kept hanging on (my 500g donation probably helped). I moved my tanks to cover a road route to his capitol so he wouldn't lose my donated resources.

Also ran: France was a nonfactor in my game besides beating me to the Pyramids. They were hopelessly behind in tech never really seemed to gain or lose noticable territory, but they periodically would declare war or an embargo, but not against me. I allied them against Iroqouis late in the game but can't remember why; maybe I wanted to distract some of his ships. Celts and Carthage looked like they might be military aggressors early but would have been wiped out far earlier without my gifts; they did well to slow the other continent for my victory. I expected to have another war with America, but after Iroquois everyone was in awe of my culture and I was running away.

Embargoes: During and after the India war I tried keeping embargo agreements against India, America and Iroquois since they were the only potential culture threats by then. Naturally others embargoed me, but I didn't want to trade, anyway.

Government: I switched to Republic when it was available, and stuck with it throughout the game. (I think you don't gain culture during anarchy, and I was beating everyone in Republic, anyway.) I had a very happy empire after all the culture-building happy buildings and wonders. The only trouble I had was late game when Iroqouis sneak-attacked me and took Thebes with Hoover. I was extremely PO'ed and took it back immediately and threw everything I had at him rather recklessly (as opposed to positioning artillery and pounding first) as I could outproduce the planet and I wanted him dead asap. But the city loss, high troop loss and numerous units left in enmy territory finally caused the WW to overcome all my happy buildings and my empire became hoplessly unhappy and rioting one turn. I took two more Iroquois cities that turn (I razed all core cities except their old capitol which had Hanging Gardens) leaving him with two core cities and one far remote tiny city on the other continent and then made peace, breaking an alliance with France.

Tech: Once I achieved tech parity in the late ancient age/early industrial age I aimed to be tech leader through self-research and avoid trading techs because I didn't want the AI threatening to build UN or spaceship or have better military units than me. It worked. I got the optional Espionage in a peace settlement later, but surprisingly the AI valued Communism very highly way late into the game and would rather give me a medium city than Communism in peace :crazyeye:. Not that I needed Communism, but I take as much as I can during peace.

Wonders: I don't usually build many wonders, but I intended to get as many as I could this game. To my surprise I was beaten to The Great Library and The Pyramids by the unknown Carthage and France. I was confident I would beat my continent-mates and was now a bit afraid about a monster across the ocean. I built the Great Lighthouse and the Great Wall instead. Then I built Colossus, Bach's Sistine, Leo's, Sun Tzu, Magellan's, Shakespeare's, Smith's, Netwon's, Universal Sufferage, Hoover Dam, Theory of Evolution and the UN (for denial). I captured the Oracle from the city of Rome early in the game and the Hanging Gardens from Salamanca, Iroquois very late in the game. I lost Hoover's for half a turn in a :smoke: move during an obvious sneaking Iroquois attack force. I had leaders for several wonders, but I can't remember all of them. I know Hoover's and UN had leaders waiting for them. I recognized early on that my southern lands didn't have any rivers for Hoovers and kept in mind that I'd need to move north because I wanted Hoover's and knew by the time I got to it it was mine because I'd be way ahead.

The Finish: Much of the game was building and/or warring. I've never won by culture before and wasn't sure if I could make it. I finally decided I was going to win and started trying to minimize the warring and get everything on wealth. I had anks and eventuall modern armor but never saw an enemy tank; I quit checking the enemy tech level in the late IA as I was way way ahead. I rushed culture buildings for a while then finally got tired and resorted to cleaning up pollution every turn. I also kept research up going for modern armor and mech infantry and upgrading, so there weren't a lot of pollution-only turns. I scratchbuilt research centers in my two cores when they were available but noplace else. Every city had libraries, universities, temples and cathedrals, and most had colusseums. The cities that didn't have colusseums at end-game were building them slowly. (I got tired of cash rushing.) I won in the IT after 1828 AD, so does that mean I won in 1828 AD or 1830 AD?

Final notes: I knew one strategy for high culture was a dense build strategy, but I didn't really want to do that. I had a lot of fun playing this game and feel I did pretty well. I did cash rush culture improvements at all opportunities after going Republic. I think I pop rushed libraries in the peninsulas early in the game but can't remember. At one point in the game I drafted infantry from every city on the other contient. Oh yeah, having the Muslim Caravel upgrade to Galleon was very nice and handy. The barbs were a slight worry early in the game, but after I expanded borders in the peninsula they weren't a problem anymore.
 
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[ptw] 1.27


AA 4000BC-70AD
I played drunken style through AA. I was soon boxed by Romans. I had only 3 temples. Limited culture for 100k target was shamefull. My only highlights were:
-One Roman city culture flipped to us 430BC. It was very close to our capital.
-40 turn gambit to Monarchy. 570BC paid off traded it for Writing, Mathematics,Philosophy, Code of laws, MM, Literature and ~800 gold.
-4 immortals and 51 chariots in 70AD. (When I traded with Egypts horseback riding for WM and 52 gold to enter MA.)

MA 330AD-1070AD
350AD - 470AD War against Romans. Spears and horses Hadn't change against our Knights. Upgraded only 20 chariots was short on gold. Started GA with immortal.
470AD GL with rushed Leo's in Ravenna
with lowered cost I was able to upgrade all chariots.
530AD -760AD Egypts :hammer:
They had musketeers but not enough.
540AD 2nd GL
800AD I had to do something for my culture. I took advance of palace exploict. Moving my palace far north when FP stayed near original core. Founding cities ICS in the south.

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Picture how my culture started to progress:

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Built order in new cities were Library -> University -> Temple -> Cathedral -> Colosseum.

1070AD - 1720AD
1300AD - 1350AD France :hammer:
Another easy military victory.

I stayed ahead in techs and sold them for gpt deals. Even built Internet in the middle of 17th century.

1720AD over 100k
 
OPEN 1.29f

This was the first game that I’ve played with 100k culture as a starting objective – in retrospect this showed as I made a couple of big mistakes… in the end things worked out o.k though.

Starting Strategy.

My main aim was to get as many cities as quickly as possible. Since it was quite a small map in order to do that I would need to land grab a.s.a.p. I planned to peacefully expand until I got out of despotism, and then go on an immortal killing spree until I felt I had enough territory under my control to start cramming in cities and building cultural improvements.

Ancient Age

If there was a Slow Start Challenge I should probably have entered…. Another first – my first game trying a RCP city placement, and its fair to say that I made a right hash up of it. In fact I made a right hash up of the building part of the start full stop.
1: I built Persepolis 1 square down from the starting location. D’oh!
2: I failed to read the strategy articles carefully enough and ended up mucking up the RCP quite magnificently.
3: I didn’t have enough food.
4: I let some of my people be carried away by the Picts (the Shame!)
Anyway I ended up in 1000 BC with 8 towns and 1 settler. D’oh!

On the bright side…. I’ve found in lower level games that early “spoiler” wars can be very helpful (basically hopping warriors from mountain to mountain, attacking workers/settlers and forcing the opponents to pop rush rather than expand) – and by 1000 BC I had 6 captured workers and had made a right mess of the other civs early expansion plans. The 4 other civs on the main landmass had only 15 towns between them…

I quickly teched up, helped by quite a lot of pointy stick research, and my galleys eventually contacting the Carthaginians, after quite a bit of grief with pirates…

I started subjugating the continent in 50BC, attacking the Romans immediately after having switched to a Republic. The ancient age finished with complete knowledge of the map, but less than 1000 culture points. Whoops. I built no wonders. The only 2 wonders I was concerned about were built by the Americans (Pyramids) and Keltoi (GL)

Medieval age.

I stormed through the continent – nobody put up much resistance, and my main problem was having to build roads behind me, since none of the other civs had decent networks. Thus the conquest phase took a lot longer than I would have liked. I had essentially taken out the Romans, Egyptians and Americans by 460 AD. I then started a big settler expansion, combined with taking out the Iroquois by 720 AD. I got my first leader in 450 AD and decided to build a FP right in the middle of the continent in ~530 AD, since I had a CUNNING PLAN.

I was a bit behind in techs by this time and instead of buying them, I wanted to get the Great Library instead. Conveniently, this was built in Entremont, well away from all my cities. I planned to capture it, and then do a FPJ there, hopefully resulting in a big low corruption ring around my FP in the middle of the continent. This plan was facilitated by getting my second and last leader in ~720 AD.

At the end of the “Subjugation” stage, in 760 AD– I had 65 towns and a puny 6882 culture growing at 228 a turn.

I ferried my immortals across the continent, losing many of them to the harsh ocean waves. But hey, they were just costing maintenance anyway…Entremont wasn’t well defended – I captured it in 1050 AD and MA’d with the Carthaginians to take some heat off me. They ended up taking out the Keltoi and being the only other Civ of any strength. Once I was ahead in techs I got about 100 gold per turn from them for tech trades. No one else had much money to talk about.

The Great Library gave me loads of techs, including, surprisingly Astronomy. I ferried my Leader across, rushed a palace, and my Mfg output went from 240 meg to 368 meg. Result! While ferrying immortals I had been building settlers as quickly as possible. I was still concentrating more on that than culture.

In 1070 AD my culture was at 15279 growing at 258 per turn and I had 117 settlements.

From then on it was culture all the way (bar filling in a few gaps in the landmass with towns). Nothing much of interest happened – I stayed ahead in techs with an 8:2:0 ratio; I entered the Industrial age in 1290 AD. I made about 400 gold per turn with about 100-150 of that from other civs. I built Library/University/Temple/Cathedral/Colosseum and then production shifted. I eventually won in 1590 AD.

In retrospect perhaps my strategy was badly flawed – looking at other people’s reports I should have at least partly focused on culture much earlier –

760 AD – 65 towns 6882 culture 228 per turn
1070 AD – 117 towns 15279 culture 258 per turn
1280 AD – 27340 culture 719 per turn
1590 – 126 towns – 100710 culture 1575 per turn.

Compare this to Sir Pleb
1000AD - culture 34073, gaining 803/turn.

However, in my defence, until building the cheeky palace, my economy simply wasn’t strong enough to rush build improvements. I think maybe my main problem was simply a slow start.

Apologies for lack of screenshots - am still in the ancient age as far as hosting is concerned....
 
Auk, your game is a great example of the many ways in which an excellent score can be achieved. Despite a subpar start, you managed to roar back with a couple of key moves. You mentioned the terrific Library gambit, which took the sort of logistical effort that many players (myself included) don't want to bother with. I also thought that the large number of cities you built early was crucial: 117 cities in 1070 AD is a very fast pace. Congratulations, and welcome to the GOTM/Medal Play Series.
 
ta - I only wish i'd found this site a while ago....

forgot to add my score - 5256 (if the note on the scrap of paper in front of me masquerading as my notes is accurate.)
 
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PTW1.27

It's 170 BC. The comfy-chair-ridden Megaxes has finally grown tired of the drunkenness down at the docks in Pasargadae, and the repeated vandalism of the old Lighthouse that the people once cheered about. Scribblings like "Where's that big library?" are especially common on the overgrown beacon.

So with the same half-heartedness as usual this despot orders that a simple ship be built, so that he can get rid of the loudest and most hottempered brutes. They are too degenerate to be of any use in the war against Rome anyway.

After a bit of indecision on the part of the sailors, they head off eastwards at a decent speed. And this is what Megaloxes sees in his weird crystal ball: an orange ship clinging to the coast of a new continent! His sages tell him that this ship is probably the only remnant of the once so famous "Anglers" (or something like that), who have ruled the waves like no one has ever done later or before, but apparantly have forgotten about ruling the soil and now languish through lack of land.

Megaxes yearns to learn republic, and construction too for that matter. He believes that this knowledge can fill up the coffers
and finally rid him of the Romans. People have already started to yawn every time he brings up his obsessive "Furthermore I believe that Rome should be destroyed." But the understanding of republic lies in the distant future (well, 20-30 turns).

This becomes a great dilemma for the dictator by the crystal ball. What should he do? Alternatives:
1) Trade republic and construction from the Anglers for all contacts and World Map, and then try to destroy the Anglish galley with his one galley? The Anglers being dead, maybe the other distant countries can pay him handsomely for the same things later.
2) Don't make the above trade until he has a couple of more galleys to make sure he will destroy the Anglers? Building 2 more galleys would take 4-5 turns, and it would take 6 turns for them to reach the present location of the Anglish galley.
3) No, the sages could not think of a third option.

Stop for a minute and think. Megaxes has 7 immortals and 11 upgradable warriors ready to go to work on Rome. What should he do? What would YOU do?

Thinking...
Thinking...

Well, this is what Megaxes did. He ordered the ship to sail a bit further (which took 20 years) then made the trade (and got currency, which Angland had obviously traded for contact with Persia, in the bargain), then attacked the Anglish "fleet", and failed miserably. Just what you could expect from those degenerates. He then tried to remedy the situation by allying all those eastern nations against Angland, so that they would not feel inclined to trade with the Anglers. He also strove to temporarily bankrupt all the nations on his own continent, so that they would be unable to trade contacts for themselves. This plan looked like it might succeed, but in the end it did not.

Millenia later, Megaxes controls the world and is, somewhat undeservingly, given the epithet "The Magnificent", but that's a story completely subdued by better stories from other solar systems with very similar planets.
 
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