*SPOILER* Gotm15 Early - 10AD+Full Continent

[ProPain]

@Dave,

Pretty impressed, just like Kemal I'm wondering how you research that fast.

 

[Bamspeedy]

I think getting contact with the Zulu as early as possible was the key in Dave's game. By trading constantly with the Zulu and everyone else, more expensive tech choices are available from huts. So having the Zulu essentially 'helping' you pop huts help speed up techs. I'm guessing that is how Polytheism was available so early, as the Zulu probably got it from a hut. And researching the often neglected tech of mathematics helped speed the tech speed, as no one else wasted anytime on that.

The early forbidden palace and early pyramids helped him tremendously.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by ProPain
Pretty impressed, just like Kemal I'm wondering how you research that fast.

By giving the AIs all the techs that you have, chances are they will come up with new tech that you don't have. If you scratch their back, they may scratch yours in return, the result is that you both get our back scratch. On the other hand, if you try to scratch your own back all by yourself, you would succeed eventually, but it may take a lot longer.

 

[ProPain]

@Moonsinger

I know gifting techs helps, although I have great sentimental problems with it Still I think it's pretty fast.

I played a mass regicide today were I donated every tech to all other civs and popped a lot of huts quickly and still I think I manages the same tech speed. Have to say I played Persia and thus got a lot of barbs. For some strange reason the backscratching thing didn't work out that great either, Alex and his greeks backstabbed me for no reason. I gave em all my techs, still plenty of room to expand available but he attacked me anyway. Maybe it's because Alex en Xerxes are archenemies. But enough I'n gettinf OT now.

 

[Moonsinger]

@ProPain

I understand perfectly what you said. I have great sentimental problems with that too. For one thing, I don't trust those AIs; therefore, I play it safe by not giving them any tech. Unless I try to beat Kemal to the early space launch, I would never scratch their backs.

 

[ProPain]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
@ProPain
Unless I try to beat Kemal to the early space launch, I would never scratch their backs.

Believe it or not, seeing Kemal's space race performance is exactly the reason I started the game I described above!

 

[civ_steve]

DaveMcW: a very, VERY impressive start, but do you think you were lucky? Your first map shows that the German Archer can see that Moscow is undefended. Bismarck just declared war so I assume its his move, and he should be able to take Moscow without a fight (he moves adjacent, you change to a spearman build, he takes before the spearman is built). Instead he attacks Minsk (the only defended city) which has a fortified spearman on a hill!! Granted, there could be more defenders ready to rush to Moscow's defense, but attacking the spearman is poorer odds than the 100% against Moscow.

 

[DaveMcW]

My clue that Minsk was the target was the fortified warrior who waited for the archer to catch up. The AI's sneak attacks are annoying, but predictable.

 

[Yndy]

Dave, you play for SS, yet you beat my progress for the early domination/milking up to 10ad

Congratulations. The RNG cut you a lot of slack though. I had no leader by 10ad and fought a lot.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by ProPain
Believe it or not, seeing Kemal's space race performance is exactly the reason I started the game I described above!

Trying to beat Kemal early space launch has been tough enough; now, we also have DaveMcW 's spaceship to deal with. Time like this, I'm glad I haven't given up my dairy business.

 

[el_kalkylus]

Originally posted by DaveMcW
My clue that Minsk was the target was the fortified warrior who waited for the archer to catch up. The AI's sneak attacks are annoying, but predictable.

I tried to replay the game like Dave played it, and the same thing happened to me that the Germans were waiting with a warrior and an archer outside one of my cities until 2 more warriors came. So I protected it with a spearmen and two warriors. But they didn't attack it, instead they went for an unprotected city about 4 turns away, and I didn't have a chance to protect it in time before the Germans declared war on me and took it.

Looking at Dave's game and my current game, it seems like the AI doesn't want to go more than one square into your territory before declaring war. And therefore, the AI didn't attack Dave's capital first. Am I right?

About my replayed games: In every game I have replayed, I have gotten a settler from the huts to the south. Are those two huts supposed to give settlers or what? I have played from the beginning 5 times now.

 

[Charis]

el_kalkylus,

The AI will target a *weak spot*. When you take steps to defend your capital, yes it will 'switch targets' even if it had originally intended to go for the capital. They don't really have any qualms about waiting more than one turn to declare a war.

(In fact you can jerk an AI around rather badly, having them go for a weak spot and then just before they get there, move troops into their target, and pull defenders away from a far away city and watch the AI run off and go after that city. Then repeat when they almost get there. This is sometimes referred to as "puppet strings" and is exploitative. Defending a potential target is one thing, and is just fine, but the above behavior goes way beyond that)

Charis

 

[el_kalkylus]

That's nice to know about "puppet strings" ; it's similar to the "ping pong" tactic. But my question was really about Dave's game. Since his capital was empty and would have taken too long to defend, the Germans should have went there, but they didn't. I thought it had something to do with culture boundaries. When it takes more than one square to go into the territory, maybe the AI doesn't want to go there (unless war).

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by el_kalkylus
That's nice to know about "puppet strings" ; it's similar to the "ping pong" tactic. But my question was really about Dave's game. Since his capital was empty and would have taken too long to defend, the Germans should have went there, but they didn't. I thought it had something to do with culture boundaries. When it takes more than one square to go into the territory, maybe the AI doesn't want to go there (unless war).

May be the German didn't intent to go to war to begin with. During the turn they declared war, they probably just finished a couple more military units or Dave was lossing some units to the barbs; may be this was really their motivation for declaring war. By this time, they already went pass Moscow.

 

[Phillip_martin]

Originally posted by Bamspeedy
I think getting contact with the Zulu as early as possible was the key in Dave's game. By trading constantly with the Zulu and everyone else, more expensive tech choices are available from huts. So having the Zulu essentially 'helping' you pop huts help speed up techs.

So let me put this into a "strategy".

Attempt to keep huts un-popped for as long as possible

This would involve leaving huts near your civ center when exploring and postioning troops near huts further out. A risk if they are popped from your blind-side but worth it to get those more expensive techs. Contact with as many civs as early as possible aids this strategy.

 

[civ_steve]

That's not what DaveMcW did. He popped 4 goody huts before making contact with his first civ!!

I'd rephrase Bamspeedy's comment like this: make some sort of trade so that every civ you make contact with has all your techs. That way every hut that's popped, either by you or by a civ you've contacted, will generate a new tech that you don't have, if it generates any tech at all. It can't benefit you at all if the AI civ pops a hut and gets a tech that you already have.

 

[Phillip_martin]

Cool. Much less risky that way (and less unit intensive).