*Spoiler2* Gotm25-Mongols - Full Map End of Middle Ages

Civ 3 v1.29f, OPEN

I had taken out the lesser civs with Swordsmen during the Ancient Age, but when I got my UU:s I really started fighting. My plan was simple: stay in Monarchy, keep taxes at 100% and expand in all directions. My core cities built Ordo Achers and Bagatur Hordes from scratch, while the cities in the periphery built workers and settlers.

After I secured the Korean peninsula and later the Arab peninsula, I pillaged the terrain so that only one road led into them. I then pillaged and re-built that road every once in a while, so that every city on these peninsulas could build Arhers (@ 20 turns) which I then upgraded to Korchins for 30 gold each.

I really liked the Ordo Archers. Their 2 FP 4 strength bombardment seemed to be more effective than the Bagaturs' 1 FP 6 strength. I usually had a big stack of Ordos redlining the defenders, then taking them out with Hordes and Korchins. I only suffered small losses. I tried the lethal bombardment a couple of times, but never had any luck with it. I got 9 leaders (Sun Tzu, FP, Palace, Leo's, Army, JS Bach, Magellan, Army, Army).

My money was mainly used to rush temples mostly in coastal cities to expand my territory (like I said earlier, upgrading was small-scale and cheap). Except for temples, I only had a couple of Marketplaces and Harbors, and one granary in Karakorum. I did build some Aqueducts, but not many.

The tech pace was not as fast as others have mentioned, probably because most were at war all the time, and some taken out at an early stage. The AI didn't even discover Metallurgy before I won. I myself didn't even have Democracy or Physics. I never planned to upgrade to Cavalry.

I reached domination in 680 ad, for 9962 Firaxis points.

This map shows my expansion:

end-map-hurricane.jpg


This map shows my core cities which all built units, and the two Archer-building peninsulas.

strategic-map.jpg
 
Samildanach: If they are intimidated by the "bugs and fixes" in this GOTM, then Conquests will leave them in tears! It's a corruption nightmare.

Great game Hurricane, the earliest win yet.
 
Really! I haven't bought conquests yet Bradley -I was assuming that it was going to be pretty polished product. As they had recruited some good players this time to do the play testing not just the numbskulls who did PTW. Maybe now that its been a week or two they'll start returning cap in hand to the GoTM.

Likewise Great game Hurricane - The archer trick was nice.
 
Hi,

TreasureSurrender.gif


First things first: This is my first submitted GOTM, I had played greeks and Koreans as a warmup and of course used the Halloween treat to good effect.

I played PTW1.27f Conquest.

I truly enjoyed this game, the GOTM is fantastic. Thanks guys!
It also forced me to adopt a completely different style of play, I usually don't have a lot of time to play, so I prefer lower difficulties, and I tend to research, build, go to war for specific reasons, but usually stop if I am confident I'll make it to the spaceship first. Here with the uniques it was clear that if I get out of the middle ages before winning I'm in trouble. So all my research plans were to get the Samurai code quickly, but then try to stay in MA as long as possible. Usually I manage to delay the AI by extorting gpt, but they did not like to enter those for some reason.

One other plan was (after I knew the lay of the land) to try and set the Egyptians, Ottomans, Tokugawa and Han against each other, and make war on all others (one at a time) myself. This failed, as the western half of the continent loved each other dearly, and I only managed to bring them into the war when I attacked the Han in the last and final push.

I also was unaccustomed to keeping a commentary, so there are a few gaps and some entries try to guess when in the previous turns something happened. I may have gotten a few dates wriong this way, and I'm not at all sure when I actually entered the MA. According to my power graph, the distinct kink around 700BC would
indicate the appearance of Bagaturs (my main force).

In 1000 BC I only had 7 cities, but was starting to accelerate settler production, so according to comments made somewhere else, I was on the low side. Still managed to win, though.

With extremely few exceptions (walls here and there, few early barracks and a colosseum and library in Karaokum) I never built anything but temples to fill out the land and lots and lots of units. Many got rushed, (See comment in the timeline below), but mostly the conquered territories were just that. I dithered a LONG time before I finally founded a city that would house the forbidden Palace, I couldn't see me put a second center near a desert. It finally came in the Khwaramizam (Never can remember, light green) territories in the south, but was not really all that useful by that time.

Here's my timeline (posted in one go, so it's a bit long. Sorry):

4000 BC: My son Temujin is today come of age, and I can pass
the reins of power to him. The lad shows
promise. He founded his city in the vinyards of his
youth and sent out scouts.
3700 BC: Met the Khazars to the southeast. We traded
knowledge Wheel and Ceremonial Burial for
Terracotta and Martial Arts.
3650 BC: The Rajaputans are to the north. They know an
alphabet and we traded knowledge.
3500 BC: Trade alphabet for bronce working with the
Gregoryeu.
3200 BC: The Magog in the south teach me masonry for wheel
and alphabet.
3100 BC: Meet koreans, but I'm not parting with a tech for 8
gold only.
2950 BC: Meet the Khwarizmians, and give these backward
people 10 gold to make them happy. I must expand!
2900 BC: A russian warrior comes up. I give him 5 gold as a
token of goodwill. Our exploring warrior comes
across an advanced Guzz tribe. Would you know it,
they are so impressed with me that they join my
clan! We have now funded the city of Ta-Tu as a far
province. An arab wanders up to Ta-Tu and I sell
him the wheel for 10 gold.
2430 BC: Finally ran into the Han. This is one big
continent.
2310 BC: Found the Ottomans. Gave me 20 gold for alphabet.
1550 BC: The arabs declared war
1373 BC: The arabs lost a couple of warriors on Ta-Tu's
battlements. When we displayed their heads on
spikes on the walls, they paid 83 gold for peace
with me. They should have done so sooner, my allies
are still advancing on Mecca >:-P
330 BC : I found this old journal in the attic of the
palace, 1000 years old - I might continue. The last
two years have been spent at war with the
Magog. When the City of Sorsam-Hit fell to my
Gospodari I found a large library. My wise men
immediately set to work and unravelled a lot of
secrets, such as engineering, monarchy,
monotheism. They are currently poring over a
section built around a book "samurai code", but it
is still difficult to decipher.

My eye turns northward, the Goguyeu and Koreans sit
in my back yard, with them removed, I could turn my
eye outward!
90 BC : As I attack the harmless Goguyeu, one of my Korchin
warriors inspires my people so much, we have
triggered a golden age!
30 AD : The Goguyeu are no more and my draft of Bagatur
Hordes continues. Soon my power will be felt
throughout the world!
50 AD : The korean war is begun. Onward my horde!
190 AD : PyongYang is mine. And look at that lighthouse by
that colossus, I like big statues. Instead of
taking the last city somewhere else down now, I
shall sue for peace.
280 AD : The Rajaputras sue for piece, and I grant it in
return for Bombay. They have only one city left
now. But an evil omen strikes: As I sign my name to
the treaty our golden age ends. Maybe I should
avoid peace...
330 AD : Those Arabs annoy me. Enroute to them I take the
Khazar out and get the Oracle and the great wall in
return. And finally Ogodei comes through and
becomes the great leader I knew he would become!
350 AD : Abu Bakir comes crawling on his belly to make
peace. He pays dearly for it and I give my troops a
rest. His back is broken, in some years it will be
easy to smash him. Meanwhile a greater prize calls:
Russia. I also use the Khwarizmiar as a light warm
up grounds for my troops before I take on the Celts
and Germans. I will also try to set the Egyptians,
Han, Ottomans and Tokugawa at each other's throats.
420 AD : Karachi defects back to the Ramaputahs. They might
as well have stayed in the folds of the mongol
empire, in 4 turns our peace treaty ends...
440 AD : The Khwarizmiar sue for peace with 4 cities left. I
use this opportunity to catch up on techs. The Han
demand tribute and get it, just wait until I am
done here. Nothing will be forgotten!
560 AD : The Ramaputhas are gone, I turn my eye to the Celts
and Arabs I have started a revolution to get from
Despotism to Monarchy, after rushing about 30
units. This war is like nothing I've ever
experienced.

Note: I had been in Republic most of the time, but
found that with all these conquered unproductive
cities I'd much rather poprush than pay. So I
actually had a 6 turn anarchy to get back to
Despotism just to be able to pump up
production. After all eligible cities were unable
to poprush any more (units mostly, few temples) I
go to monarchy to avoid war weariness. This is an
eye-opener to me, I had not used governments this
agressively in the past. Usually it's Despotism ->
monarchy or sometimes republic -> Democracy).

730 AD : A short skirmish with the Celts straightened the
border and gave me two techs: Metallurgy and
Military tradition. The Arabs get eradicated. I
enter monarchy and pay for a couple of temples to
fill my borders I also finally establish a
forbidden palace. With all this desert this is not
easy. I just declared war on the germans, not to
eradicate them but to get the four cities they have
in my territory and a tech or two. Their first
cities fall ridiculously easily, nothing but
spearmen. I might go further...
740 AD : Finally another great Leader: Jochi!!
750 AD : Jochi built an army, and guess what: Chagatail
steps forward!
Made an expensive alliance with the Celts to attack
the germans (100 gpt) but it is worth it. Berlin
has the pyramids, Lugdunum JS Bachs Cathedral, I
want both, and my armies are ready to step in.
790 AD : Berlin is mine, these Pyramids sure are
impressive. I've also taken Catherine out of her
misery, no more weak russians. I wonder if the
military alliance with the Celts was a mistake.
820 AD : The germans have tried to go behind my back and
captured Mekkah with a spearman - just walked
in. But next turn it was recaptured. I don't want
the expensive MA longer than necessary, so I kill
the germans rather
than peace for tech.
840 AD : The solid germans are gone. I have enough troops
handy to immediately kill the Kelts. So long
suckers.
870 AD : The Kelts are stronger than the germans, and more
advanced. I start to see Riflemen now :( But I got
Lugdunum with JS Bach's Cathedral, that'll make MY
people happy. Such a nice big hall for our horses!
900 AD : The Kelts have one city left and give Physics and
Economics for peace. I'll reattend to them in 20
turns. How can I find out how close I am to
Domination (except tediously count all tiles?)
940 AD : Two chinese cities, one tokugawa, one ottoman in my
territory. But they are all in MPPs and I need some
time to rebuild my armies.
970 AD : I bought a MPP from Tokugawa and Egypt. I will
declare war on Otto and Han in 1000 AD and let them
attack me >:)
990 AD : The Han declared war by themselves and are now at
war with my new allies Toku and Cleo. But Entremont
has flipped back :( 14 more turns on that peace
deal :(
1010 AD: Ottos declare war on me and are now dealing with
Toku and Cleo :)
1020 AD: Richborough flipped back to Celts. I want to cancel peace
NOW (but don't).
1050 AD: Kublai becomes a leader and builds the next army
1080 AD: The solid Han are destroyed. Ottomans are now fully
engaged at both flanks.

1110 AD: Domination victory, 7921 points, Whoohoo! :cool:
 
Civ III 1.29, Open

Well, I got a really late start simply because I bought Korsun Pocket and have hardly been able to stop playing it! If you ever played hex-based board war games, this is a game you must look at!

Anyway, the big thing about Korsun Pocket is that you need to effectively use combined arms tactics to succeed--sound familiar? I never got a chance to play the Halloween Treat warm-up game, so I came into this one cold--but the KP experience stood me in good stead.

Cracker will lash me with a wet noodle for only having 5 cities at the end of the QSC period, but the first war saw me take the city of Chimkent from the Khazars...

Can someone explain to me how a little two-city minor civ ended up with the Pyramids, The Great Wall AND the Great Library all in the same city? After picking that plum it's been roll the hordes --about 10 of each of the 4 horsemen--around the map...Bringing apocalypse to enemies mine!

I've got about half the world now at 510 AD and a few of us are working on Magnetism...

It's been fun--thanks Cracker!
 
I can think of two reasons. First, the lesser civs were unable to build settlers, so they started building wonders very quickly, giving them a head start against the other civs who were pumping out settlers. Second, the lesser civs had rather numerous armies at the beginning, and that could have tempted them into a war that then gave them a leader or two.
 
ptw v1.27f
Predator class

I have just submitted my domination victory 650 AD, 9540 Firaxis points.

Game was very interesting but went on very slow. I ended up playing 33 hours. I managed to control the tech pace following the middle ages beacause I set every AI to fight others.

I shut down research after reaching Cavalry and started rushing temples. The remaining AI were almost in the industrial ages when I won. I was beginning to fear I would see Riflemen.
 
Open - Civ3

Ancient Ages

GOTM25_1000bc.jpg


Middle Ages
I continue my expansion while building Gospodars. I am still searching Feudal Warlords in an attempt to be at monopoly and be able to have good deals. Egypt constructed the Great Lib and they are too far away for me to grab it. I also decide to keep the Gorg and Khazars as civs that could help me wage wars and build wonders.
My first target is Magog than Russia (to build a second core) and than India. I will focus on weak opponents and trying to have war declared and gathering AI to fight.
I will try some gambits on research in order to be able to sell it for lots of cash before the AI swap technology for nothing.

? Germany declares War. Same turns the Arabs do the same to Germany … I bring Gorg with me for Currency
740 BC : I bring Khwa (with embassy & 2 techs to war against Germany … surprisingly , they receive Monotheism at the same time !). I also bring Korea. Germany is also fighting Russia called by Arabs. I am still the last with Arabs & Han in the lead.
630 BC attack Magog and next year win first town Vorskor with all silks
590 BC India : 7 GPT & 48 GP vs Silks. Searching at 100 % now…
450 BC I have just win the Magog Capital … short win with lot of Swords going to join the fight…
370 BC My gamble on Feudal Warlords pays off … So I could at least be back to techs parity. Details of trade is:
Otto : Monotheism vs Feudal Warlords & 110 GP & 29 GPT / Egypt : Engineering vs Feudal Warlords & 4 GPT & 15 GP / India : Son bud & WM & 1 GP vs Feudal & Engineering / Gorg : The Republic & WM & 12 GP vs Son bud / Togu : Monarchy & 9 GPT & WM & 33 GP vs Son bud / Khazar : WM & 9 GPT & 37 GP vs Son Bud / Egypt : WM & 6 GP vs WM / Han : WM & 4 GP vs WM / Russia : WM & 7 GP vs WM / Arabs : WM & 1 GP vs WM / Keltoi : WM & 11 GP vs WM / Egypt : 4 GP vs WM / Khwa : WM & 12 GP vs WM /
I then revolt for Republic since I can manage War Wariness (looking at Sir Pleb article). I am still on the 11th position
310 BC : Gorg : 2 slaves / India : Spices vs Wines & WM & 7 GP
230 BC 5 countries have Education !
210 BC I trade Wines to Arabs for 90 GP & 3 GPT & TM
150 BC: Arabs have invention & I missed the Gambit on Samurai Code by 2 turns. I hate the 5 turns of revolution… :mad: Most this research @ 100 % lost … I go for trading anyway so that I could start building these most needed units to wage wars. I get back to techs parity except that Arabs have Invention. I am still receiving 84 GPT from trades. I even traded Horses to Han. I need the cash to fuel the upgrade of units & research even if I need to face Riders.

Russia War (110 BC – 170 AD)
110 BC : I declare War On Russia with Gorg and Khazars to help me. I have a limited army of 11 Ordus & 7 Turghaut & 2 Elite Swords and I enter my GA. My research is now Astronomy at 10 % because I need cash.
30 BC: My first leader builds the FP in Moscow. In retrospect, I am not sure it was a wise solution. The location was not so great but I needed an extra push using the GA.
10 BC : Han offers Astronomy vs WM & 29 GPT & 658 GP. I then deal back to Egypt Astronomy & WM & 66 GP vs Invention and then I declare War, I will have Ottomans to fight the war for me :D …
170 AD : Just finished with Russia with a late Leader to build Sun Tzu :cool:. I have also make a successful gambit on Banking thus more trading is to follow.
Ottomans : GunPowder & Navigation & WM & 5 GP vs Banking
Arabs : Music Theory & WM & 6 GPT & 182 GP vs Banking
Keltoi : 13 GPT & 25 GP & WM vs Banking
Korea is joining my fight against the Germans
Gorg : Deals Spices vs Astronomy
Khazars : 15 GP & 2 GPT & WM vs Astronomy
I am preparing my next war against India …waiting for my silks deals to end.
Korea : Slave vs WM & 5 GP
Toku : Typo & WM vs Gun

GOTM25_170ad.jpg


Indian War (270 AD – 360 AD)
270 AD : I declare War on India with 12 Ordus & 9 Bagatur & 3 Khorcins. I gather Khazars to join my loonnnggg war against Germany for Navigation just to ease my South front.
Keltoi is also to fight Germany. I am not sure if this is wise to give away Economics but it will make them brake a trade with Germany. In this war with India, I will only face 3 elephant and few pikes. So the bombarding Ordus and Warring Hordes are lethal to India.

I just missed the gambit to Economics. I hate this again… I am 2 techs behind after the usual AI techs swapping.
Ott : WM & 16 GP & 4 GPT vs Economics (they made peace with Egypt)
Gorg : WM & 22 GP & 13 GPT vs Banking
Toku : with Economics joins my war effort against Egypt :D
Then I go round to grab some more gold with WM
Han wants Incense for 9 GPT so I can search Democracy at 90% in 8 turns !
Go for Democracy at full speed … another gambit.
290 AD : Renegogiate deals with Han Silks & Wines for 20 GPT only … I am loosing 11 GPT on research.
Korea : I have 1 slave for Invention… I am really giving techs away. I am so short of cash
310 AD : Missed Democracy by 3 turns so much cash wasted … Another leader will build JS Bach in Udaipur the next year
340 AD : I can still exchange Dem to Togu for WM & War against Germany
350 AD : Ott WM & 16 GPT & 35 GP vs Dem.
360 AD : Korea : WM & Slave & 16 GP (all GP) vs Education

GOTM25_360ad.jpg


Khwarizmia War (400 AD – 490 AD)
War on Khwa … They are weak, I will face mainly spears, occasional pikes and some Archers. I am now #3 on the ranking behind Arabs & Han. I decided to keep Arabs as my best mates until the end of the game since I prefer to press on soft targets
Keltoi : WM & 6 GPT & 25 GP & Physics vs Democracy
I could trade Metallurgy for Lots of GPT but I hold on and go the Theory of Gravity… Arabs have Magnetism…
440 AD : Han : WM & Enlightment & Magnetism & 26 GP vs Metallurgy
Arabs : WM & 4 GPT & Theory & 4 GPT & 241 GP
I enter to IA without any free techs and Arabs have one that they do not want to trade. I will go for Steam at 100%

GOTM25_490ad.jpg
 
ptw.gif
1.27f
Open, Special Mongol Units

Link to Ancient Age Post

As I entered the Middle Ages, I had finished off the Khazar, and was trying to take the Magog capital, which fell in 630BC, getting me the Lighthouse. I then moved my mostly elite swords to Sorsam, their second city, while still fighting off the weak attacks of the Raja and building my forces. I was rewarded for my patience vs. the Magog as I got Jochi in 530BC, who immediately moved east to rush my Forbidden Palace in the center of the old Khazar lands. He did so in 470BC, and the same turn I got another leader, Chagatai! (These minor civs really were leader factories). I was facing a tough decision. I first wanted to hold him for Leo’s, but I didn’t know how long before Invention would be available, I didn’t even have Engineering yet. I also thought about building an Army->Heroic Epic, hoping to get another leader before Leo’s was completed by anyone else, and with so many units to upgrade, Leo’s was critical. What I was worried about was all the civs who were working on Hanging Gardens or Great Wall cascading to Leo’s as soon as Invention came out. Then it hit me, what if I rushed Hanging Gardens? That would kill the cascade, and give me some useful happiness :) , and also allow my elites to keep going for more leaders! It would also generate some culture, if I built it on a border (near Raja). So I did in 450BC, inadvertently triggering my Golden Age! This worked out well, though, as I was able to ramp up production of Gospodars and start research on Chivalry (6 turns at 90%) instead of waiting for the AI, which probably wouldn’t choose it first anyway. The Arabs completed the Great Wall the next turn, killing the cascade.

I was finally able to trade for Engineering in 370BC when the Han got it, but still needed Monotheism. The next turn Invention was available, which I bought from Korea, and right on schedule Tolui stepped forward from the battles with Raja to build Lui’s Workshop in 310BC. The same turn I completed Samauri code, and the next turn I started upgrading. By then I had nearly 50 units needing to be upgraded (24 gospodar, 18 swords, and 6 bowman), but with no science and in GA, I was bringing in 250+/tn. The GA also helped me crank out Hordes, I tried to set each city to Hordes or Ordu depending on which would waste the least shields. By 250BC the Raja were down to 1 city, and my alliance with Gogu ended, so I made peace and declared on Russia. They were my next target because several of their cities were positioned near my FP. The Ottomans started Sistine, so I knew they had Buddhism. I wanted to slow the tech pace, so I provoked wars, getting a MA with the Celts vs. the Germans and the Han vs. Tokugowa for older techs. I also captured Sorsam in 210BC, eliminating the Magog, capturing the Oracle, and generating Kublai, who formed an army for some of my new Bagatur Hordes. I kept the rest of my Elite swords for a while, but they never could keep up, and I eventually upgraded them to Turghauts. I continued the assault on Russia, taking Moscow and Sevastapol in 190, getting Mongke, who I used for Heroic Epic. By 150BC they were down to 2 cities, I made peace for Minsk, and prepared to continue on into the Arabs.

They were next because they had the Great Library. This was a race, as I couldn’t afford to buy tech and continue upgrades/rushes. I wanted to time it so I could take the GL before Gunpowder, or close to it, so I could see the saltpeter and not fight muskets. The first couple cities were on hills, so they were tough, but then I gathered momentum as more hordes kept arriving. 50BC I took Makkah and the Library. Next turn was the end of my GA, and I got Buddhism, but Gunpowder wasn’t available. As I finished the Arabs off, I did get another leader, Kaidu, for another army. 10AD brought Education and Gunpowder, I barely made it! I could tell that the Germans and Celts had Salt, but not the tech, and the Celts wasn’t even connected yet. I used my ROP to move through the Celts and invade Germany, even though we had been in a phony war for a while, and concentrated on getting the Saltpeter sites first. They went pretty quickly, although Liepzig flipped on me. I actually expected more flips, unlike my usual tactics of rushing temples and strong garrisons, I usually left a couple healing units for a turn or two to quell the resistance, then left them open, and if anything rush settlers to fill gaps. I would rush an occasional temple, again to fill gaps, but most of that was later. Anyway, I generated another leader, for another army. The armies were very effective at taking out red-lined pikes after my Ordu’s had their turn. I tried to run 2 ‘hordes’ of an army, 8-10 Ordu, 5-6 Bagaturs, and 2-3 Khorchin, with 4-5 Turghauts for defense. Of course in practice it was never quite so neat. In particular, if I got lucky and redlined units with only a few Ordu, I would take the city and use roads to move up to the next city and try a quick attack, which worked more often than not. I was able to take 2-3 cities per turn during these wars.

210AD was my turn of treachery, as I finished off the Germans and declared on the Celts. Our alliance had ended, but I forgot the ROP was signed a few turns later, so my rep took a big hit. I had no units in their territory, but they had some in the former German lands, who were toast in the open. I had also kept enough units moving around their Saltpeter site that they never hooked it up, so the worst I faced was Pikes, and mostly spears. The opening turn, I took 4 cities and got 2 leaders, who formed another Army and then rushed the Pentagon in Frankfurt. By 280 the Celts were destroyed, generating 2 more leaders along the way. Conan was used for another army, but I saved Ogodei (cycling through the names again) for Bach’s. I actually paid to research Music Theory for it, and for trade value.

I had declared on the Khwaziri in 260BC, as they were next and had no saltpeter, and I took out their Iron on the first turn as well. (Turghauts are great for pillaging). I got Music in 320, and was able to trade it first to Korea for Chemistry, then Chemistry and Music around for Banking, Astronomy, Navigation, and Typography. I had been avoiding trading techs, as I wanted to stretch out the Age of the Hordes as long as I could, but with so many techs available at once, I took it. Since the AI tech pace seemed to be accelerating, I decided I better make a run at Military Tradition to get there ahead of the Ottomans (I do NOT want to face Sipahi), and started researching Metallurgy. I also rushed Bachs, and took out the last 4 Persian cities, but they must have a settler on a galley (at least 2, actually, as I later killed one and they still survived). I took the next turn to pick off the lone Russian city, and position myself for war with the Han. They had no salt, but appeared to be buying it from the Tokugowa, so I bought the Ottomans into the war to cut the trade route. I still saw 1 or 2 per city, but not too bad. The key to this war, though, was that they had been fighting the Gogu, and I had ROPs with each, so their armies were mostly fighting in my lands, and the Riders were winning. When the ROP came up for renewal in 340 I said no, so in 360 they were sitting ducks on my roads. I killed 9 knights, 4 pikes, a longbow, 2 spears, a musket, and 3 settlers before crossing into their territory. Chagatai II appeared to form yet another army. Even after building the Pentagon, I had kept my armies at 3 Bagaturs, saving the 4th slot in case I got to cavalry, except for one army.

I got to Metallurgy in 410AD, and did not plan to share it, but the next turn the Ottomans, Egypt and Korea all had it. I got 77g from Tokugawa, and made peace with the Han, leaving him with one city on the other side of the Ottomans. I was within 500 tiles of the domination limit, but that would still take a lot. I continued to rush settlers to fill gaps, settling 2-3 towns/turn, but with research on MilTrad at 70%, I was limited on cash. Anyway, I invaded the Ottomans in 420AD, and they did have more Muskets than the Han, it was harder to get to their salt. I did get Mongke II, and used him for Sistines, strictly for the culture, to fill gaps in the Han lands. 450AD I got two leaders, again both used for armies. By now I had 10 armies, and had already lost 1 or 2, usually from getting impatient and throwing them against non-redlined pikes. I also had 54 Ordu, waiting for Military Tradition, which I got in 480AD. I got my first couple of cavalry into action as I finished off the Ottomans, but I had been stockpiling 20+ Ordus on my northern border, waiting for upgrades. 500AD I declared war on Korea, and again there was a slaughter, as they had a stream of knights moving south along my roads to join their own war against the Tokugawa. I also filled 2 empty armies that were waiting, and topped off a couple of Horde armies, and invaded Korea. (I kept my ROP with the Gogu, I think they were the only country I never had a war with!). The cav went quick, although I took more losses than I should have, as I was overconfident and didn’t wait to bombard the cities down before using them. But I took Seoul in 550AD, generating my last leader Baidur. That and several new cities founded pushed me over the limit, and I achieved Domination victory in 560AD, with 1914 tiles, 10,751 Firaxis points.

Map of the Horde's Conquest Route
J2_G25_InvasionMap.jpg


Final Map
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I think one of the keys was that I tried to slow the tech pace down, with lots of wars among the AI, to prolong the usefulness of the Hordes. The AI never got to physics, we ended with them up by Democracy, Artistry, and Economics, but I had Military Tradition. I also limited the amount of luxuries I sold, and bought, so as not to provide them with too much free cash. I'm sure I could have done a better job of it, but it seemed to work well enough. Also, I tried to focus on opponents that were behind in tech (for example, the Koreans were tech leaders, so I left them alone until the end). This game did require a lot of patience, as bombarding cities with 10+ Ordus, 3 shots each, can get tedious. Also the constant warfare eats up a lot of RL time, as this game took me 38 hours. I could have just as well skipped the late research, as even with 60+ cav at the end, less than a third of them saw action, I could have used the research money to rush more settlers and temples earlier and probably hit the limit a little sooner. Overall though a very fun game, as I really felt the momentum build, and I actually felt sorry for the poor Khwaziri when the Hordes approached!! Also, 21 leaders is far and away a record for me, but those Hordes with Blitz gave me probably 5-10 elite fights per turn, usually against a redlined unit. ;) Also, as you can tell from the unit support, I stayed in Monarchy the whole time, which is rare for me, but it was worth it with the constant war.
 
Justus,

well done :). It would be interesting to see how many people here first took out the germans then attacked the Celts from two fronts. I've done the same... That Celtish position seemed really strong, might be interesting to replay this one from their point of view (Is that possible later after GOTM25 is finished? See what the AI can do with such a massive MA advantage. My feeling is, though, that it does take a human intellect to convert the brief mongol advantage into a decisive one.

I'd also like to know how you knew where the domination limit was (except counting every tile and population point showing on the map each turn - there must be a better way. My empire summary only shows me MY population and territory.)

Cheers,
Hammurodi
 
OpenX (without special units)
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1.27

Spoiler 1
Spoiler 2
Spoiler 3


MA 1050BC - 340AD

1000BC - 650BC
Expansion and leader farming times. AI haven't researched Republic/Monarchy. Despite Great Library I started own research to republic fastest possible speed. I continued defensive war against Khazars and GL appeared 650BC.
730BC revolt to Republic.
675BC GL from the Ancient Ages rushes Sun Tzu's.

650BC - 250BC GA
GA started same year when republic formed. During GA over 80% of my cities built library /keshiks. I went to Samurai Code which was mistake preventing salt resource unconnecting trick. Without salt I was in Keshik to Cavalry upgrade path. When better way was not to research SC and upgrade horses to Cavalries. With help of tech lead I made MA vs strong enemies (Arabs and later Egyt). Rajaputana was first direct target (I attacked weakest civs first).
410BC I rushed Leonardo's workshop with GL.
390BC Rajaputanas are gone forever.
310BC Han captured my city. That made them to my next target.
I lost many keshiks. Keshik is weak UU. Not my favorite so I started my research run to MT. I got it 70BC.

Map from year 490BC. Military: 16 keshiks and 4 MIs.

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310BC Han sneak attacked. (took city)
10BC Egypt sneak attacked. (took city)
Most of my cities were undefended and that may called AI to attack.

When I got my cavalries Han, Arabs, Khazars and Khwarimizian faced my fury.
10BC Khazars annihilated
310BC-110AD Han annihilated
260AD Arabs annihilated
210AD-280AD Khwarimizian annihilated

340AD Mongols entered Industrial Ages. I made most research by myself. I got only 4 techs of AI. I could have been faster (and reach 200AD IA) if I would had do: 1. Hadn't researched 5 turn Samurai Code. 2. Started researching Republic earlier. 3. Not have been several turns in GA with slider 8.0.2.
 
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1.27, Horse Archers

Link to spoiler1, Ancient Times

My game changed dramatically at exactly the time I entered the Middle Ages in 1075BC.

After trading Korea Construction for Currency, I saw that she knew Engineering! This meant that Korea was actually a real scientific Civ, an interesting surprise. There were four other Civs which would normally be scientific: Germany, Ottomans, Khhwarizmia (Persia), and Russia. So I tested giving Currency to Germany, to get her into the Middle Ages. The result was that Germany also knew Engineering!

After that I of course gifted the other three scientific Civs out of Ancient Times. I saw them get the following as their free techs:
Khwarizmia: Monotheism
Russia: Feudal Warlords
Ottomans: Monotheism

The next problem was to get all three of those Middle Age techs into Mongol hands. By including peace and ROPs, getting a bit more cash first from other Civs, and by temporarily floating all my cash for the first deal, I traded for Monotheism, Feudal Warlords, and Engineering at a net cost of 80g. I was the only Civ who had all three of those techs at the end of the trades.
I wonder what these techs will be worth in the QSC? :)

Now I was positioned to learn Samurai Code in about 15 turns. And of course I'd want to go to war after that. I decided now to do all I could to slow my rivals. I didn't like the look of the unknown Magog and Khazar units, and didn't like Korea and Arabia's apparent strength. So I decided to try a new variant on fomenting early wars. I started by choosing Egypt and Germany as my enemies. They seemed like good choices to gang up on because each is industrious, each had a good start, and each had a defensible position at the end of a peninsula. I expected they could both successfully fend off multiple enemies for a long time.

I declared war on Egypt and Germany. Then I allied every other Civ against one of the two, giving tech for some of the deals, taking money for others. The unusual thing I did was that I didn't ally any Civ against a nearby rival. I wanted all Civs to be sending their attack units on long trips, through other Civs' lands. Two reasons for this: 1) Hoping they'd start other wars due to crossing so many rival lands; 2) I wanted to catch as many Civs as I could with their troops away from home when I attacked. So the alliances I made were:

1) Against Germany: Arabia, Russia, Tokugawa, Ottomans, Han Dynasty, Rajaputana.

2) Against Egypt: Magog, Khazars, Coguryeo, Korea, Khwarizmia, Celts.

And then finally I was finished my 1075BC turn! :)

From that date till the end of the game, I renegotiated the alliances above whenever peace broke out and I wasn't yet at war with the Civ involved. Over time the other Civs also formed a few alliances of their own.

While I was learning Samurai Code, building a few libraries (mainly for culture), and stockpiling units to upgrade, I saw many enemy units travelling here and there. It was especially nice to see lots of Coguryeo attack units travelling southward on the long walk to Egypt. But the strange Magog and Khazar units didn't leave home. Hmmm.

In 730BC I learned Samurai Code. For a long time after that I didn't do any research, used all funds to rush production. (Mostly military, some buildings and some settlers.) Some Bagatur Hordes were completed very quickly due to prebuilds I'd had going for a while. (Temples were perfect for these prebuilds, costing the same as Bagatur Hordes.)

In 630BC I triggered my Golden Age by destroying a wandering German unit with one of my Bagatur Hordes.

In 570BC I decided the time had come to begin major assaults. By this date I could honorably terminate many of my alliances and I had a respectable force of 12 Targhaut Cavalry, 16 Ordu Archers, and 8 Bagatur Hordes.

I attacked Coguryeo first, in 570BC. I'd have preferred Magog and Khazar as first targets but I felt my forces might be too weak for a successful lightning strike against either of them.

The bulk of Coguryeo forces were far from home and could not return before I destroyed her in 530BC.

Next I attacked Korea. And in 470BC I got my first leader, who rushed Sun Tzu's. In 410BC I finished off Korea, having captured all of her towns. By this time my army had grown a fair bit, to 13 Targhaut, 27 Ordu, and 15 Bagatur.

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In 350BC my healed and repositioned troops attacked Magog. My Ordu archers redlined all the units in the first city, including the odd units. Bagadurs then decimated them, gaining many promotions to elite. In 290BC I finished off Magog. I gained the Great Library from them, was up to five luxuries, and could now finish my ring 7 builds. I got a second leader during the Magog war and sent him to the ex-Korean area to build a Forbidden Palace.

In 230BC I repeated the process with Khazars. During this attack my Golden Age ended, at 210BC. The Golden Age had been wonderfully productive, my army was up to 17 Targhaut, 43 Ordu, 27 Bagatur, and 1 Khorchin at this date. (I'd just received Invention from the Great Library.) In 150BC I finished off Khazars. As well as their cities, I'd gained the Pyramids from them :)

I got a third leader while fighting Khazars and used him to rush Leonardo's. And also a fourth leader - Bagatur Hordes are truly wonderful leader generators! From this time onward leaders were plentiful. I noted 13 leaders in total in my game, might have missed one or two. One subsequent leader was used for JS Bach's. All the rest were used just for minor rushing - a couple for universities, most converted to armies which travelled back to the core and disbanded there to rush marketplaces.

In 110BC, shortly after finishing off Khazars, the Great Library gave me Gunpowder. Much as I was enjoying the Mongol special units, it seemed clear that Cavalry would be considerably more effective for making fast advances. Especially as defenders grew stronger in the near future. Since it was almost certain I'd get Education next from the Great Library, I started research again, at the maximum speed I could afford toward Military Tradition.

After the Khazars I attacked Russia and Rajaputana at the same time. During that time Han Dynasty went to war with me. Part of my forces protected the southern border and even began a small advance while I continued in the north, finishing off Rajaputana in 30BC and Russia in 30AD.

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By this time I'd decided that I would not attack Arabia at all. She was strong, had a fast UU, and was rich. I'd be better off keeping her as a paying ally and taking over weaker Civs to reach domination.

So my next logical target would be Khwarizmia but, in my complicated ongoing web of alliances, I had a peace treaty still in force with her. So my troops swept across to Han Dynasty instead. Han Dynasty put up the strongest fight I'd encountered yet but my ever-growing Mongol hordes made steady progress, taking about two towns per turn. By 150AD I'd reduced her to one town beside Egypt and I gave her peace for 50gpt. (I have no idea how she could afford to pay that.)

Next I'd have preferred to continue in the same direction, through the Ottomans and into Egypt. But I had an active peace deal with Ottomans and my treaty with Khwarizmia had expired. So the troops turned around and attacked Khwarizmia, reducing her to one town she had in the Ottoman area - I remained at war with her and took that last town a bit later.

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I then waited a few turns, repositioning and researching while waiting for my Ottoman treaty to expire. In 280AD I learned Military Tradition and upgraded 48 Ordu Archers to Cavalry. I stopped research for the rest of the game and upgraded the rest of my Ordu in subsequent turns.

Throughout this period I'd also been rushing settlers and using them to fill in captured territory, working toward domination of course.

In 290AD I attacked Ottomans with Cavalry and Bagatur Hordes. Finished them off in 320AD and attacked Tokugawa (who were down to just a few towns due to an alliance they'd formed against Egypt), and also attacked Egypt. During this time I strengthened relations with Arabia and Celts, bringing them both to "gracious". Domination was in sight and I didn't want any distractions on my other borders.

In 370AD I finished off Tokugawa. In 390AD I finished off Egypt. By this time I was rushing settlers at a furious pace to fill in captured territory.

And so it was that in 400AD the Mongols reached a domination victory!

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Originally posted by LKendter
The key is how much damage you do to the AI. I shreded Korea to just one city and got - Metallurgy, Physics, Navigation and Banking. That is 3 late required late age techs.
I have the impression that there is also a time factor involved. I've had cases where what the AI would give me for peace went up or down over time.

The only reason I'm fairly sure of for an AI becoming willing to pay more for peace (when there's been no fighting, i.e. no damage and no cities taken) is a new alliance. If you ally with someone against an AI, the AI seems to immediately become willing to pay more for peace. Presumably because it would like you to break your word in the alliance.

What I've seen more often is the AI's offer for peace going down over time. I think it has a somewhat short memory of damage in this regard. If you shred the AI but then wait 20 turns before giving them peace, it is as if they're not feeling the pain any more :) So, I suspect that another factor in getting the most out of them for peace is to deal them a lot of damage in a fairly short interval.
 
Predator, PTW 1.27, unique units

I did very poorly in QSC, could not build 4-turn settler factory because did not move NE from the starting location. Instead of SirPleb's 19 cities I got only 11. All were building military, mostly Gospodar and warriors. Tech pace of the game was insane. I did whatever possible to slow it down but still it was very difficult to keep up. Serious wars started in 610 BC beginning with Khazars followed by India, Magog, Russia, Goguryeo, Korea, Arabs, Celts, Germany, Khwarizmia, and Han. I was half-way through Han who had already some reflemen defenders when domination was triggered in 540AD (Firaxis score 10,559). Interestingly, it was very difficult to eliminate Russia and India. They both had settlers in galley parked in some remote areas. Fortunately, Ordu and Khorchin were very effective in sinking these ships. Building horde of Ordu and upgrading them was not a big deal as well as diplomacy. However, because of these pesky settlers in galleys the risk of cultural flipping was very high and there were many cities with resisters. My personal impression is that unique mongol units were ineffective against pikemen/musketmen. However, they were very fast and easy to build and multiple bombard ability was sometimes very handy in large numbers. Decisive edge was only reached with cavalry. Han was the only civ researched to Industrial Age. Surviving Tokugawa, Ottomans, and Egypt were still in the Middle Ages. Overall, the AI put very little resistance. And certainly, many thanks to the developers, these unique units are very beautiful and probably well-balanced.
 
My God, SirPleb: Your game was a true work of art. I especially like how you gifted the scientific civs into the middle ages. My game went into stagnation at that time, probably because I did not do the same. The scientific civs entered the middle ages severally over the next 200 years and no one got Feudal Warlords, therefore, it was a long time in coming. If I had gifted all of them into the MAs at the same time, would it have been more likely that someone would have aquired Feudal Warlords?
 
I don't think that the timing of hitting the MA has any effect on which tech they get. The key to SirPleb's strategy as I see it is that by gifting the techs on his turn, he was able to trade for the techs before the AI had a chance to trade with each other, and got a 3-1 deal (better than that, actually, as he was also able to sell them back to the other AIs). In my game, the AI's hit the MA at the same time, but it was triggered by their researching construction, so they traded amongst themselves, and instantly 4 scientific civs had all 3 early MA techs. Russia was too broke even to pay the AI's penny costs, so they had only Monotheism, and I was able to get a 2-1. But by holding Construction, SirPleb had the 'initiative', as it were, in the tech trades, and could broker it into the big payoff!

(BTW, I was also suprised that there were that many true scientific civs, but it threw me, as I remember thinking earlier that Russia wasn't, since they didn't start with Bronze Working. Maybe Cracker changed the starting techs to throw us off?)
 
Anybody else notice how long this is taking.

I played last night for 3 hours and only got in 10 turns. The combination of checking each of the 14 (then 13,12,11,10) opponents every turn for trade opportunities and attacks with 10 Ordus bombarding at 3 shots each to redline the 5 defenders and 12 Korchins bombarding at 1 shot each to kill 3 of the defenders followed by 2 Hordes killing the last 2 and moving in a Turghaut for defense, then moving the entire stack to the next city (victim) and doing it again it takes a long time complete a single turn.

Cracker & company please don't take this as a complaint. This is probably one of the most enjoyable games I've played. It's just that I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to complete this game in spite of playing 2-3 hours every night this month (the wife's not very happy about that) and I just know I'll be spending as much time next month on the Asian Melee as that sounds like it'll top this one. I'd also like to find time to squeeze in the 6-4 Iroquois game (:love: them mounted warriors), but I just don't see that happening.

To top it all off, I've had Conquests since 11/6 and haven't even put in the computer once yet (considering the FP & corruption issues, maybe not a bad thing).

So to wrap this up, thanks for a great game and here's hoping the 6-6 mid-month game will be on a small map.

:beer:
 
Originally posted by bradleyfeanor
The scientific civs entered the middle ages severally over the next 200 years and no one got Feudal Warlords, therefore, it was a long time in coming. If I had gifted all of them into the MAs at the same time, would it have been more likely that someone would have aquired Feudal Warlords?

I had Russia and Germany having both Feudalism and Monotheism and Korea was not in MA yet. So, I sold Construction to them and they got Engineering. To trade it, I had to re-negotiate peace and pay lots of gpt. For Engineering I traded Monotheism and Feudalism and did not trade these tech further to keep the research pace as slow as possible. This indeed slowed it down but not in the direction I was not expecting because some civs already had Education-Music Theory and Chemistry and Samurai Code was not yet discovered. Because of this, I had very few Bagatur Hordes (probably total 6 or 7) and had to do decisive fighting with Khorchin/Anda backed up by Turghaut and Gospodar. It was mostly OK against spearmen.
 
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