Stealing Gives Random Tech?

[Biologist]

You don't receive affinity levels for researching techs. You receive affinity points and it's possible that you already had some whereas the AI hadn't even though you both appear to be level 0 Harmony. You might already have accrued some from a quest decision.

And, yes, when you steal, you get a random tech from them that you have not researched yourself.

I realize that researching techs doesn't directly grant affinity levels, I simply meant that the net effect was that I gained two levels of Harmony from all the exp I got. That said, my point about the AI having no apparent experience in Harmony is moot, since the civ in question has nothing to do with which tech one receives.

As others have stated, I understand why this was done from a balance standpoint, but it's unsatisfying from a roleplaying/immersion standpoint. Maybe what they should do instead is remove the tech stealing option and leave "steal science" as the sole research-focused espionage mission. Then they could implement a system where capturing an enemy city or outpost has a percent chance to grant an enemy technology for free, with cities having a higher chance than outposts.

 

[FreedomFighter]

The game did bad job at explain about it, even it is awesome to use. People would make an assumption that science siphon work the same way as energy siphon at first glance, but no. Instead of giving you full price of science point, it gave you only % amount of tech you currently research. . .This is why steal tech is better, unless your agent can finish his/her job faster than your current researching tech, then pick steal science to boost the tech that you want. I focus on my affinity, and let my spy to fill the rest by randomly steal it. I play ARC by the way, so it suit this tactic.

 

[liv]

I do not think steal tech is better for three reasons.
1. Sometimes it gives me a tech I may spend one turn researching
2. I may not need the tech at all for what I am trying to accomplish (I will need the science towards the tech I chose)
3. Stealing tech has less chance of succeeding. Building up the intrigue is not very easy I find

Overall I rarely steal techs only science. I try to time my science steals and how I pick what I research so that I get more out of it.

 

[FreedomFighter]

Funny. Steal science has higher chance of failing for me more than Tech. Both are in "Easy" level too. In ever 21 turn; i am sure to get at lease 4-5 success out of 6 agents.

 

[Ryika]

Might just be bad luck or distorted perception. Steal Science is indeed easier than Steal Tech:

<Row>
<Type>COVERT_OPERATION_STEAL_RESEARCH</Type>
<ScriptName>StealResearchCovertOperation</ScriptName>
<Description>TXT_KEY_COVERT_OPERATION_STEAL_RESEARCH_DESCRIPTION</Description>
<PortraitIndex>5</PortraitIndex>
<IconAtlas>COVERT_OPS_ATLAS</IconAtlas>
<BaseTurns>20</BaseTurns>
<BaseDifficulty>35</BaseDifficulty>
<BaseIntrigue>15</BaseIntrigue>
<BaseRequiredIntrigueLevel>1</BaseRequiredIntrigueLevel>
</Row>
<Row>
<Type>COVERT_OPERATION_STEAL_TECH</Type>
<ScriptName>StealTechCovertOperation</ScriptName>
<Description>TXT_KEY_COVERT_OPERATION_STEAL_TECH_DESCRIPTION</Description>
<PortraitIndex>6</PortraitIndex>
<IconAtlas>COVERT_OPS_ATLAS</IconAtlas>
<BaseTurns>20</BaseTurns>
<BaseDifficulty>50</BaseDifficulty>
<BaseIntrigue>20</BaseIntrigue>
<BaseRequiredIntrigueLevel>2</BaseRequiredIntrigueLevel>
</Row>

 

[FreedomFighter]

I switch all agent to do science siphon. More than half of them fail

 

[Acken]

Confirmation bias

 

[Gorbles]

Confirmation bias

This.

 

[HandyVac]

I think it's unsatisfying from a gameplay-mechanics standpoint as well as plotwise.

If you could only steal techs that your target actually has then espionage would let you catch up with your enemy, but never let you surpass them, meaning you'd end up with more of a level playing field. Also, it would mean whoever is in the lead of the science race would be the juciest target for espionage, and have to divert more time and effort to counter-espionage if they want to keep that lead.

It would also make your choice of victim important, i.e. if you're looking for purity points steal from a purity faction for the best chance of getting those techs, if you want the orbital-laser-granting tech steal from the facton you can see spamming them around, so you know you have a chace of getting it.

 

[Minor Annoyance]

It might just be a bug, not a choice. In the code the part where it checks what technology the other civ has might not be functioning. Since we don't get to see exactly what tech others have it could go unnoticed until something they definitely can't have is stolen. Like now with an affinity tech that they have no levels for.

 

[FreedomFighter]

It might just be a bug, not a choice. In the code the part where it checks what technology the other civ has might not be functioning. Since we don't get to see exactly what tech others have it could go unnoticed until something they definitely can't have is stolen. Like now with an affinity tech that they have no levels for.

Or a tech that they didn't even have it in first place.

 

[CivScientist]

I think it's unsatisfying from a gameplay-mechanics standpoint as well as plotwise.

If you could only steal techs that your target actually has then espionage would let you catch up with your enemy, but never let you surpass them, meaning you'd end up with more of a level playing field. Also, it would mean whoever is in the lead of the science race would be the juciest target for espionage, and have to divert more time and effort to counter-espionage if they want to keep that lead.

It would also make your choice of victim important, i.e. if you're looking for purity points steal from a purity faction for the best chance of getting those techs, if you want the orbital-laser-granting tech steal from the facton you can see spamming them around, so you know you have a chace of getting it.

This exactly! Before CiV type espionage you had tech trading which basically functioned the same way. It gave civs that were behind in tech a means to catch up. In CivBE, every mechanic has a snowballing effect.

 

[lilgamefreek]

@lilgamefreek / Ryiga:

How easy would you think this is to modify? This is something that would bug me enough to fix it, but I don't have time to delve far down the LUA rabbithole.

Wouldn't be too hard. I have something similar already done for an upcoming sponsor. Would be easy to be honest.

 

[FreedomFighter]

This exactly! Before CiV type espionage you had tech trading which basically functioned the same way. It gave civs that were behind in tech a means to catch up. In CivBE, every mechanic has a snowballing effect.

But in BE, if you are already on the lead about Tech, you will still leading more with spy stealing lower faction grant you a random tech which is quite amusing. . .

The espionage really need some rework. If your economic already powerful enough, you shouldn't be able to siphon magical amount of energy from the faction that has negative energy production. Same should goes with science siphon. It just doesn't make any sense since espionage suppose to be helping hand to the Civ that are sub-par against opponent.