Stealthing unit stacks!

[ZergMazter]

I dont know if anyone is familiar with this, but this happened while I was playing. In my game I got auto-produced spies from espionage wonders, and they are invisible with an extra 2 hit points.

I was at war moving around the map and I engaged an invisible unit which i knew was a spy. After I killed it a whole stack of 8 units showed up. Since the spy had 2 extra hit points even tho it wasnt the strongest I was in front of the stack to defend units making them all in essence invisible.

I dont know how the math works to have an unit take the lead in a stack, but this could be cool for multi-players games. A whole new meaning to recon missions or special forces by having a single unit stealth them, but if it dies then their cover would be blown.

 

[Ozymandias]

The closest attempt at a study I know of re: how the AI chooses which unit to defend with can be found HERE.

Sadly, the answer seems to be that it's random.


-Oz

 

[ZergMazter]

oh but the AI has to do nothing to accomplish what im saying. For example if you give a unit the 'King' ability, then it will be the very last unit to show up in a stack, so it wouldnt matter how stupid the AI is.

The same goes for this. If you get a stack of unit and one of those units have 100 HP, then automatically that unit will have the very first spot which means it will be the one always visible on top of the stack, and if that unit happens to be invisible, then the whole stack is invisible, because its only looking and the effects and graphics of that very first unit on top.

 

[T-mun]

Sounds like a nice find ZergMaster, though I'm not sure why this unit was on top of the stack if it didn't have the highest defence... As you said:

Since the spy had 2 extra hit points even tho it wasnt the strongest I was in front of the stack to defend units making them all in essence invisible.

Could you explain a bit more or try to investigate more on it ? Did it have the same defence as the best other units in the stack and only 2 more HP or did it have a lower defence ? AFAIK when you have for example a regular musketman fortified along with a veteran pikeman, then the Pikeman is on top.

 

[ZergMazter]

You know Its weird. I have modded my game in a unique way in reguards to units. Some units are auto-produced so I increased their hit points instead of their attack or defense.

I have seen in some cases where a unit with less defense than other units in the stack is the one sitting on top to defend just because they got more hit points.

Like I said I dont know how the game calculates this, but it clearly does somehow. If you take a unit with 2 defense and a unit with 1 defense and put them in the same stack the one with 2 defense will be on top of the stack defending. However begin to increase the HP of the unit with 1 defense and eventually after enough HPs have been added it will become the primary defending unit of the stack.

This first happened to me by accident while trying to make my carriers stronger to defeat. My carriers have 8 defense but were showing on top of a stack of battleships with 12 defense because it had so much HP. It was annoying because I wanted the carriers to be defended, but I figure you could use similar settings to do the same in other instances like the example I gave earlier in the thread about stealthing stacks.

 

[Vuldacon]

ZergMazter... Think of a Hit Point as the same as adding another Unit.
So if you give 2 Hit points to a unit, it is like two units in one with the same stats combined.

Hit Points are very powerful for this reason.

Defense is actually more powerful than offense because when fighting, the unit that can withstand the attacks longer will survive over the stronger offensive unit.

If you want a strong unit, use more Defense and Hit Points

 

[ZergMazter]

Thats a nice way to put it Vuldacon. Im gonna go test something with that on mind.

 

[Ozymandias]

... I confess: I enjoy appropriately resurrecting this thread every 2 - 3 years:

The Big Question - How Does The AI Choose Which Units To Build?

,

z

 

[ZergMazter]

Lol ozy haha. And I love it when you guys resurrect stuff like that. For me in order to find a post like that requires me to type in just the right words in the search bar so it can show up. Its like asking the right questions on google when you wanna find something specific but u dont cuz you are asking wrong

You know when it comes to how the AI chooses what unit they will build they are very... limited I guess is what i should say. I wish the AI built for example modern armors and a helicopter unit thats meant to counter tanks, but the AI will only focus on ONE (the better unit in terms of the AI)

In my mod all I have done is trick the AI since I know they will only build modern armors late in the game. I have my industrial time cavalries upgrade to helicopters, but this is how i got it set up:

1- Early Industrial age everyone builds cavalry

2- Late Industrial age tanks are discovered and then everyone begins to build them instead of cavlry.

3- Later Industrial era helicopters are discovered and everyone begins to build them instead of tanks. Also at this point everyone upgrades obsolete cavalry to helis, and everyone now posses both tanks and helis.

4- Mordern age modern armors are discovered and once again every AI switches back to building tanks since they are now superior. At this point a new small wonder that auto-produces helicopters is buildable.

This is the only way i know of manipulating the AI to build 2 types of offensive units with simlar power, but different purpose. My helis in my mod can stealth attack tanks, so imagine what happens to a tank stack when they have been wounded, and also movement isnt limited by hills/mountains , meanwhile the tanks are limited.

I gotta tell you it works like a charm. The AI sends those helicopters and uses them well against my stacks. Of course only human players would know the real value of building both tanks and helicopters even tho they have similar power, since we know how we could use each.

Oh and i forgot to mention helicopter dont have blitz, but tanks do, so there is an incentive to building any for different roles. It gives my game that feeling in civ4 when you got a whole bunch of unit, but the AI maxed out on just the unit to counter you, and its not fake. You will see it in the battlefield.

Im in the process of applying similar techniques to other units in order to make my game more militarily challenging. I've tested it in my games and its very successful.