Steam

[Cahillicus]

What's your opinion on steam? I find it annoying as all hell but very useful at times. I just wish it wasn't so temperamental. It took me 9 tries to install it on my laptop, and on the house desktop, it wouldn't work WITHOUT McAfee.

 

[amnslkr]

I've found it to be very useful in the realm of buying a game once and never having to worry about the game disc getting scratched. It's much easier to connect with friends in games and chat with them while playing. Cloud saves are really great too, since I can resume the progress I've made on one machine on another. Readily available auto updates and community mods are also good to have too. The sales they have are good and they feature a great program for new developers to get their games out and on the market (which is awesome.)

My only gripe is having to either be in an online status, or be singed in on offline mode (which has been weird sometimes) in order to play.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I847 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Greasy Dave]

Steam…you just wanted to get a slanging match going, didn't you?

Well...where do I start?

Steam provides a few positives, which no doubt the fanboys will be keen to tell us about, but the negatives for me way far outweigh them. Gamer’s have to ask themselves where would we be without steam, not what are the benefits.

Without steam PC gamers would have a second pc game market. You would be able to lend your friends games you’ve played and borrow games from them….uhhhm rather like you can with a playstation. Believe it or not, gamers, this actually existed right up until ten years ago. And then Valve pretty much closed it down. The games publishers are happy because they argue (I believe erroneously) that they get more games sales – (there’s not enough room for the whole economic debate about how a second hand market supports or corrodes a first sales market). Microsoft wanted to do the exact same thing with the new XBOX, but Sony trumped them and they had to back down. However, us pc gamers are stuck with it – we’re too small a market and all the publishers have signed up to it.

Where would we be WITH a flourishing second hand game market? Well we would be getting more value from our purchases for a start. Don’t forget, that although Steam has wiped out the second hand market value of your game, it hasn’t reduced the sales price of your game. So the game costs the same as it did ten years ago – actually often more IRT - but you have less value because you can’t resell/ lend or trade it.

Take a look at the price of the game. Well, of course, there's the fact that if you're in Europe you pay more for your game than if your in the US (49 dollars in the US - 49 Euros in EU)- a policy that I find frankly insulting to my intelligence. But let's look at the actual price of a digital download. A digital download on steam in Europe is actually more expensive than buying the game in my local bricks and mortar shops - the dvd cost incorporates manufacturing, packaging and transport to the retail outlet. The steam price ...none of the above? How does that sound like value for money?

There’s also a corrosion of something called the “right of first sale”, but that’s a legal issue and, well, I don’t have time or energy to open up that one properly. Basically, in US law, when you buy copywrighted material, like a book or a dvd, or cd, the seller loses all claims to that material. And the new owner can resell/ trade etc the copywrighted material as he or she wishes - providing he/she doesn't break the copywright. Games companies get around this by selling us, the consumer, a license to use the software. It’s legal, but IMV totally in conflict with the spirit of the law and the spirit of the right of first sale. Alas, all games publishers have signed up to it and because of that we’re stuck with it. We’re being scammed. Sorry. But that’s the long and short of it.

They try to tell us that it's caused the pc games market to survive. A debatable claim. The only real thing, IMV that's kept the pc game market alive is the fact that it offers alternatives to the types of games you can play on a console (civilisation and other titles) and offers the option of modding. Which is the only reason I play pc games and put up with the rubbish that Valve call Steam.

The one thing I do like about steam is the greenlight feature and that it allows small developrs to get a foot hold in the market. This is good. The rest.... well, I'd flush the rest down the toilet with the claim that Steam reduces piracy.

Was that enough to get the debate started ?

 

[scheva007]

I freaking love it.

 

[bobbo008]

While it may be questionable as far as our rights as consumers go, now and in the future, it works well for me right now.

I wait a few months and buy what was a $60 for $15. Clearly it's making everyone in the industry money, which is why consoles are doing it, too. For example, a few months ago I picked up a digital copy Assassin's Creed title with all the DLC for $18 for PS3. I could've picked up the "vanilla" version for $60 months earlier, and if I brought it to Gamestop, I'd get, what, $20 or so? So I got to play it for $40 without any DLC, or I can wait a while, get it for half that (with DLC), but, oh no, I can't lend it to friends or play it on more than one other PS3. I can live with that.

 

[grandad1982]

Please don't start new threads lime this. There are plenty of other threads about steam and they all degenerate in to a load of trolling or pointless arguing!

 

[Cymsdale]

Benefits outweigh the negatives for me by a landslide. Really don't care about the secondary market at all.

 

[Cahillicus]

Steam…you just wanted to get a slanging match going, didn't you?

Well...where do I start?

Steam provides a few positives, which no doubt the fanboys will be keen to tell us about, but the negatives for me way far outweigh them. Gamer’s have to ask themselves where would we be without steam, not what are the benefits.

Without steam PC gamers would have a second pc game market. You would be able to lend your friends games you’ve played and borrow games from them….uhhhm rather like you can with a playstation. Believe it or not, gamers, this actually existed right up until ten years ago. And then Valve pretty much closed it down. The games publishers are happy because they argue (I believe erroneously) that they get more games sales – (there’s not enough room for the whole economic debate about how a second hand market supports or corrodes a first sales market). Microsoft wanted to do the exact same thing with the new XBOX, but Sony trumped them and they had to back down. However, us pc gamers are stuck with it – we’re too small a market and all the publishers have signed up to it.

Where would we be WITH a flourishing second hand game market? Well we would be getting more value from our purchases for a start. Don’t forget, that although Steam has wiped out the second hand market value of your game, it hasn’t reduced the sales price of your game. So the game costs the same as it did ten years ago – actually often more IRT - but you have less value because you can’t resell/ lend or trade it.

Take a look at the price of the game. Well, of course, there's the fact that if you're in Europe you pay more for your game than if your in the US (49 dollars in the US - 49 Euros in EU)- a policy that I find frankly insulting to my intelligence. But let's look at the actual price of a digital download. A digital download on steam in Europe is actually more expensive than buying the game in my local bricks and mortar shops - the dvd cost incorporates manufacturing, packaging and transport to the retail outlet. The steam price ...none of the above? How does that sound like value for money?

There’s also a corrosion of something called the “right of first sale”, but that’s a legal issue and, well, I don’t have time or energy to open up that one properly. Basically, in US law, when you buy copywrighted material, like a book or a dvd, or cd, the seller loses all claims to that material. And the new owner can resell/ trade etc the copywrighted material as he or she wishes - providing he/she doesn't break the copywright. Games companies get around this by selling us, the consumer, a license to use the software. It’s legal, but IMV totally in conflict with the spirit of the law and the spirit of the right of first sale. Alas, all games publishers have signed up to it and because of that we’re stuck with it. We’re being scammed. Sorry. But that’s the long and short of it.

They try to tell us that it's caused the pc games market to survive. A debatable claim. The only real thing, IMV that's kept the pc game market alive is the fact that it offers alternatives to the types of games you can play on a console (civilisation and other titles) and offers the option of modding. Which is the only reason I play pc games and put up with the rubbish that Valve call Steam.

The one thing I do like about steam is the greenlight feature and that it allows small developrs to get a foot hold in the market. This is good. The rest.... well, I'd flush the rest down the toilet with the claim that Steam reduces piracy.

Was that enough to get the debate started ?

Dang, I guess some people really have it out for steam for reasons I didn't even know existed. Another complaint I have is that install time is dependent on the internet speed, which can be really slow for large downloads, instead of just popping the disk in, and then waiting 10 min. for install.

Please don't start new threads lime this. There are plenty of other threads about steam and they all degenerate in to a load of trolling or pointless arguing!

Dude if you have nothing to say about the topic, don't say anything at all. No one's forcing you to post.

 

[grandad1982]

Dude if you have nothing to say about the topic, don't say anything at all. No one's forcing you to post.

Dude. I did have something to say on the topic. Anyway the voices in my head force me to post.

 

[Civilmyzation]

considering I can get Brave New World from Steam (and will as I purchased it on sale before) tonight at midnight and begin this new stage of civilization 5, I really love steam. a lot. like, there is a countdown right now til I can click a button and download it. this pleases me greatly.

 

[starrywisdom]

Love steam. Has no negatives to me. I had one person a while back trying to convince me that steam is the devil because its just hidden DRM. Meh.

Steam offers a convient place for me to buy my games, keeps them all in one place, manages my cdkeys/etc, organizes all of my PC playing friends. Not being able to sell my pc games? Don't care - never have.

Client wise, I've never have had an issue(outside of the occasional friends list offline). Have it installed on 2 desktops, and my laptop(as well as the mobile app on my android).

 

[NBAfan]

Steam…you just wanted to get a slanging match going, didn't you?

Well...where do I start?

Steam provides a few positives, which no doubt the fanboys will be keen to tell us about, but the negatives for me way far outweigh them. Gamer’s have to ask themselves where would we be without steam, not what are the benefits.

Without steam PC gamers would have a second pc game market. You would be able to lend your friends games you’ve played and borrow games from them….uhhhm rather like you can with a playstation. Believe it or not, gamers, this actually existed right up until ten years ago. And then Valve pretty much closed it down. The games publishers are happy because they argue (I believe erroneously) that they get more games sales – (there’s not enough room for the whole economic debate about how a second hand market supports or corrodes a first sales market). Microsoft wanted to do the exact same thing with the new XBOX, but Sony trumped them and they had to back down. However, us pc gamers are stuck with it – we’re too small a market and all the publishers have signed up to it.

Where would we be WITH a flourishing second hand game market? Well we would be getting more value from our purchases for a start. Don’t forget, that although Steam has wiped out the second hand market value of your game, it hasn’t reduced the sales price of your game. So the game costs the same as it did ten years ago – actually often more IRT - but you have less value because you can’t resell/ lend or trade it.

Umm, have you ever heard of this thing called Steam sales? PC games are way cheaper these days because of Steam. You must also consider the fact that the price being same means games are actually keeper these days, due to inflation.


Steam is awesome. It's the whole reason PC gaming is in a renaissance right now.

 

[Cicerosaurus]

I don't know, but Steam has now decided to do a full reinstall. No idea why.

 

[scheva007]

Umm, have you ever heard of this thing called Steam sales? PC games are way cheaper these days because of Steam. You must also consider the fact that the price being same means games are actually keeper these days, due to inflation.


Steam is awesome. It's the whole reason PC gaming is in a renaissance right now.

And dont forget that because of competition with key-selling sites like GMG, Gamersgate and etc.., that will drop prices even more. There is a sale one basicly all the time

 

[Socratatus]

Steam is evil.

 

[snoochems]

People who don't like steam are the tin-foil-hat wearing stooges whiners of society.
Moderator Action: Don't troll please.

 

[Funky]

@Greasy Dave:

Very good post. Especially your point about "right of first sale". We pay full price for products, yet they don't actually belong to us, we just get a license to play. This alone is a totally unacceptable practise.
That said, the reason for the divisiveness in this matter is that Steam does offer certain benefits, such as easily getting together with your friends, automatic patches for games (though these can lead to problems, too), and special sales offers. In my view however, the downsides outweigh the positive points by far. I think it may be to some extent a question of generation. Those who grew up without it are generally more skeptical and don't see a need for this 3rd party software, whereas younger kids may not even know that a "life before Steam" existed and take it for granted. Those in favor of Steam should at least acknowledge the shady practises and the other problems related to it.

 

[Funky]

People who don't like steam are the tin-foil-hat wearing stooges whiners of society.

What a remarkable way to debilitate all undesired arguments. Congratulations, I bow before your wisdom and command of words.
Moderator Action: ...and don't troll back please.

 

[scheva007]

i gamed in the pre-steam era. I never wanna go back.
1) no more looking on the web and manually downloading patches, never knowing for sure its the right one
2) it was never so easy to organize, find and make friends. especially if youre RL friends are a bunch of CoD lovers
3) no more game over with a broken disc. or 200p manuals (mother earth will thank you for that).
4) a cheap store, right on my desk. That has games from way back.

That you dont "own" your games is a theoretical argument rather than a practical one. Its like complaining about DRM while internet is all around. If you wanna stick to principles, fine by me, but i rather look at the practical implications.

 

[Lunchmoney]

We pay full price for products, yet they don't actually belong to us, we just get a license to play. This alone is a totally unacceptable practise.

That is very true, you do only own the licence to play the game (sounds a little like Microsoft software in that you dont own Windows or Office, just a licence to use them; yet I dont see/hear people complaining about that).

Valve have said on multiple occasions that if they go belly up (unlikely but not impossible in todays economic climate), they will transfer all ownership of titles to the end users and you will own your game. So the fact that you dont "own" the game means nothing once applied to the real world.