Steam

[IkM]

I don't get why people hate steam. It's very usefull, IMO.

 

[NBAfan]

@Greasy Dave:

Very good post. Especially your point about "right of first sale". We pay full price for products, yet they don't actually belong to us, we just get a license to play. This alone is a totally unacceptable practise.
That said, the reason for the divisiveness in this matter is that Steam does offer certain benefits, such as easily getting together with your friends, automatic patches for games (though these can lead to problems, too), and special sales offers. In my view however, the downsides outweigh the positive points by far. I think it may be to some extent a question of generation. Those who grew up without it are generally more skeptical and don't see a need for this 3rd party software, whereas younger kids may not even know that a "life before Steam" existed and take it for granted. Those in favor of Steam should at least acknowledge the shady practises and the other problems related to it.

Except software licenses have always said this.

 

[BluegrassGeek]

Yeah, software sold on CD had the same licensing restriction. Sure, you could give/sell your CD to someone else, but they often also had an activation code that got tied to an account. So the disc was kinda useless unless the buyer could get a new code. "First sale" hasn't applied to games in a long time.

 

[Socratatus]

That is very true, you do only own the licence to play the game (sounds a little like Microsoft software in that you dont own Windows or Office, just a licence to use them; yet I dont see/hear people complaining about that).

Valve have said on multiple occasions that if they go belly up (unlikely but not impossible in todays economic climate), they will transfer all ownership of titles to the end users and you will own your game. So the fact that you dont "own" the game means nothing once applied to the real world.

People are still trying to get refunds from banks for being sold wrong policies 10 years later. Every company that goes into receivershipusually bails and runs and anyone owed anything never gets a penny back even after going through the courts.

What makes you think Valve will be any different?

Get with the real world, pal. They just say that stuff so you and others can sleep comfortable at night.

 

[I was NC]

I don't get why people hate steam. It's very usefull, IMO.

I have no doubt Steam provides benefits (although some of those listed would apply to any decent corporate website). My questions are why:
-is it the only way to download the game, and
-do you have to be online?

Yes there’s an offline mode, but you must first be online to activate it. Which I learned the hard way.

A few months ago I brought my computer to keep me occupied while having to spend a few hours in a waiting area. To my surprise, Civ would not load because there was no WiFi connection. So instead of playing I got to spend the entire time fuming. And, to respond to the comment above, building up a hatred of Steam.

Even if there had been adequate warning, what is the justification for this business practice? I know the real reason is to show ads for different games (in which I have 0 interest), but is there any other explanation?

Bottom line, for a basic player like me: the one and only consequence of Steam is to make my purchase aggravatingly unavailable. Or sometimes delayed while it updates or whatever.

Other than a failed attempt to download a TSL Earth map (also frustrating) I’ve kept it offline. For those of you who benefit, great. The rest of us would like the ability to opt out. I’d even pay more.

 

[Valddan]

I've been using steam for over 6 years and I never issues with it.

I like the fact that I can have most of my games tied up to one place who records all my gaming stats (achieves, hours played, number of games).

The games are usually a lot cheaper than retail and those steam sales are the best place to grab some great bargains.

Although, if the retail price is close to the steam, I'll always grab a physical copy.

The only thing I really don't like is the fact that I don't know what will happen in case Valve goes down, but I'm guessing that I'll lose all of those games.

 

[NBAfan]

Even if there had been adequate warning, what is the justification for this business practice? I know the real reason is to show ads for different games (in which I have 0 interest), but is there any other explanation?

Because digital makes the cost of selling games dirt cheep. The game companies no longer have to worry about stupidly expensive logistics and retail store cost.

The online thing depends on the game. Games like EU3 and CK2 from Paradox just use Steam to download it, you don't even need Steam to be open to run the game.

 

[BluegrassGeek]

Even if there had been adequate warning, what is the justification for this business practice? I know the real reason is to show ads for different games (in which I have 0 interest), but is there any other explanation?

It's DRM. You can't give your friends free copies because the game is tied to your account. Popping up the occasional ad is just icing on the cake for Valve.

Bottom line, for a basic player like me: the one and only consequence of Steam is to make my purchase aggravatingly unavailable. Or sometimes delayed while it updates or whatever.

Actually, it's really useful if you have to reinstall, especially if the game supports backing up your save games to Steam. Saved me a lot of trouble when I had a drive go down on me, and had to reformat it.

 

[I was NC]

It's DRM. You can't give your friends free copies because the game is tied to your account.

Since I'm a techno Neanderthal I'll take your work for it. And you're right that having an on-line backup would be nice in the event of a reformat.

But my antipathy for Steam became set in concrete during those hours of not being able to play the game for which I paid. Even if it did offer me something of value I'd probably still hold a grudge.

 

[civvver]

Without steam PC gamers would have a second pc game market. You would be able to lend your friends games you’ve played and borrow games from them….uhhhm rather like you can with a playstation. Believe it or not, gamers, this actually existed right up until ten years ago. And then Valve pretty much closed it down. The games publishers are happy because they argue (I believe erroneously) that they get more games sales – (there’s not enough room for the whole economic debate about how a second hand market supports or corrodes a first sales market). Microsoft wanted to do the exact same thing with the new XBOX, but Sony trumped them and they had to back down. However, us pc gamers are stuck with it – we’re too small a market and all the publishers have signed up to it.

Not true. For a long time pc games have come with activation codes. Even before that when was the last time you actually bought a used pc game? I can't recall gamestop even carrying them. The secondary market exists for consoles because it's very simple like renting a dvd and stores run trade in promos. PC games are not this way. Not since the days of old floppy discs have I shared games with my friends. If it was a good enough game I bought a copy. Secondary market wouldn't exist with or without steam.

Where would we be WITH a flourishing second hand game market? Well we would be getting more value from our purchases for a start. Don’t forget, that although Steam has wiped out the second hand market value of your game, it hasn’t reduced the sales price of your game. So the game costs the same as it did ten years ago – actually often more IRT - but you have less value because you can’t resell/ lend or trade it.

Take a look at the price of the game. Well, of course, there's the fact that if you're in Europe you pay more for your game than if your in the US (49 dollars in the US - 49 Euros in EU)- a policy that I find frankly insulting to my intelligence. But let's look at the actual price of a digital download. A digital download on steam in Europe is actually more expensive than buying the game in my local bricks and mortar shops - the dvd cost incorporates manufacturing, packaging and transport to the retail outlet. The steam price ...none of the above? How does that sound like value for money?

Also untrue. PC game prices are going down due to the internet. First the regional price differences, if you are mad about those don't blame valve, blame your government. It's confusing regulations that make games more expensive in Australia and Europe. Second only brand new games cost full price, the same as consoles on release day, but pc games are discounted much quicker than consoles. And there are tons of sales. Digital distribution makes selling a game on steam basically no cost, so publishers can run 75% off sales and still make a profit. Take advantage dude. I haven't paid full price for a game since 2010, for civ5. Over the past 2 years I've bought 90 games for an average of $5 each. That's super value, no way I'd be able to do that without steam and other digital distribution. The competition is also forcing some retailers to lower prices like amazon. They have sales all the time now too. Also steam distribution gives a lot larger percent of the money to the developers (I think I heard 70%) encouraging indie games.

There’s also a corrosion of something called the “right of first sale”, but that’s a legal issue and, well, I don’t have time or energy to open up that one properly. Basically, in US law, when you buy copywrighted material, like a book or a dvd, or cd, the seller loses all claims to that material. And the new owner can resell/ trade etc the copywrighted material as he or she wishes - providing he/she doesn't break the copywright. Games companies get around this by selling us, the consumer, a license to use the software. It’s legal, but IMV totally in conflict with the spirit of the law and the spirit of the right of first sale. Alas, all games publishers have signed up to it and because of that we’re stuck with it. We’re being scammed. Sorry. But that’s the long and short of it.

They try to tell us that it's caused the pc games market to survive. A debatable claim. The only real thing, IMV that's kept the pc game market alive is the fact that it offers alternatives to the types of games you can play on a console (civilisation and other titles) and offers the option of modding. Which is the only reason I play pc games and put up with the rubbish that Valve call Steam.

Ok that is debatable the right of sale stuff but with the internet games were headed there anyway. A lot of games are played online, a lot of EA titles were already like this. And steam doesn't force this, drm and licensing are up to the publisher. Like someone else said paradox lets you simply use steam to download.

Without steam pc market would be around, but it wouldn't be thriving like it is now. There are tons of new indie games that we wouldn't have without it. We'd only have classic pc series like civ, some niche games from companies like paradox and then a ton of console ports like assassin's creed, bioshock etc.

I only ever disliked steam when my internet sucked 3 years ago (1 mbps). It was faster to go to the store, buy a game and load it off disc. Now I have decent internet (20 mbps) and I love steam. Highlights for me:

-Automatic updates
-Awesome sales
-Huge library (no searching stores or ebay for obscure titles)
-Download to multiple pcs easily. I just bring my laptop on vacation and know I'll have access to any game as long as I have internet.
-Near instant access to games (just as long as it takes to download)
-No discs cluttering up my office.

Occasionally steam hangs and gets messed up between offline and online modes but just kill the process and connect to the net and it's fine, nothing cumbersome for me.

 

[BluegrassGeek]

Since I'm a techno Neanderthal I'll take your work for it. And you're right that having an on-line backup would be nice in the event of a reformat.

But my antipathy for Steam became set in concrete during those hours of not being able to play the game for which I paid. Even if it did offer me something of value I'd probably still hold a grudge.

Wait until you see their Summer Sale. Those prices might change your mind.

 

[Socratatus]

Since I'm a techno Neanderthal I'll take your work for it. And you're right that having an on-line backup would be nice in the event of a reformat.

But my antipathy for Steam became set in concrete during those hours of not being able to play the game for which I paid. Even if it did offer me something of value I'd probably still hold a grudge.

I`m with I was NC (if my hint wasn`t already enough). I don`t like being stopped from playing a game because I suddenly have no internet or because it just feels like it. I am an Offline Player, I don`t need to be Online. For years i`ve played Civ games happy and free and now with Steam, it`s like having a chain collar around my neck.

I lost the internet in January, after two weeks it stopped me playing Civ5 (in mid game) cos it couldn`t find a net connection- No choice in the matter - And it was a desktop Pc so not exactly easy to lug it around to the nearest net connection (and why should I have to).

Yea, for 4 months I fumed because the game I payed for I could not play- and I love my strategy games. It shouldn`t be like this. I don`t care what it`s benefits are. A collar is a collar, no matter how pretty it`s painted. Few care as is evident, but it`s still wrong and even unethical.

 

[BluegrassGeek]

You can just authorize once, then go into Offline Mode. AFAIK, it'll never try to connect again until you switch back to online (or log out of Steam).

 

[bobbo008]

You can just authorize once, then go into Offline Mode. AFAIK, it'll never try to connect again until you switch back to online (or log out of Steam).

Unless he didn't know he was going to be offline before hand. Now that I think of it, is it possible for him to log on to his steam account temporarily on a DIFFERENT machine and then be able to play it on his desk top or no?

Regardless, the one exception should be is if he happens to have a physical copy of the disk. The game should always play straight from the disk, internet or not.

I know I picked up a physical copy because at the time it was cheaper at Best Buy than on steam, and I was quite surprised to learn the disk was nothing more than a tool to validate the purchase on steam...

 

[BrokTheFanatic]

What's your opinion on steam? I find it annoying as all hell but very useful at times. I just wish it wasn't so temperamental. It took me 9 tries to install it on my laptop, and on the house desktop, it wouldn't work WITHOUT McAfee.

Steam makes me very angry. If they just fixed a few things it'd be solid and I really don't understand why they don't since there is competition.

So IMO right now its like government, a necessary evil.

 

[BluegrassGeek]

Unless he didn't know he was going to be offline before hand. Now that I think of it, is it possible for him to log on to his steam account temporarily on a DIFFERENT machine and then be able to play it on his desk top or no?

No. The entire point is that you have to be logged in to the computer you're playing the game on. And you can't be logged in at two locations at the same time. Basically, that means you can play the game, or you can leave it logged in on your friends computer to let them play* but it will disconnect them if you log in at your own computer.

Regardless, the one exception should be is if he happens to have a physical copy of the disk. The game should always play straight from the disk, internet or not.

I know I picked up a physical copy because at the time it was cheaper at Best Buy than on steam, and I was quite surprised to learn the disk was nothing more than a tool to validate the purchase on steam...

That's what a lot of games do now. It means the company doesn't have to use their own DRM system, they can let Steam handle it.

*I'd suggest not saving your credit card information in Steam if you're leaving it loaded on a friends computer.

 

[Falconiano]

Steam provides a few positives, which no doubt the fanboys will be keen to tell us about, but the negatives for me way far outweigh them.

^ That says it all for me.

I never accept hard DRM of any kind. The whole Workshop thing is even worse, with the fact Steam even controls mods and installs them so you can't even touch them.
Ridiculous, failed way to make people stop pirating - it just makes it harder for honest players to get their own game to work how they want.

 

[alpha wolf 64]

I hate it to the point that I will never again buy another game where I have to use steam. My SDK has not worked in months, and constantly, I cannot restart games that I was in the middle of because something got changed. The convenience of not going to the store to purchase is a non factor to me since I want the physical disc to hold in my hand. It just causes far more problems than benefits.

 

[killmeplease]

i like steam very much. very convenient and helpful!
never had any problem with it.

 

[BluegrassGeek]

^ That says it all for me.

I never accept hard DRM of any kind. The whole Workshop thing is even worse, with the fact Steam even controls mods and installs them so you can't even touch them.
Ridiculous, failed way to make people stop pirating - it just makes it harder for honest players to get their own game to work how they want.

Actually, no. Steam makes it easier for me. I can buy a game and get it installed right to my machine, even if I'm not at home. No shopping for discs or waiting for a package to arrive. Plus, I don't have to keep track of where I left the install disc, or if I lost the key code.