Strange Civilization Rewards

[xienwolf]

Just a slight offshoot from comments in another thread.

In WHY I have to play Evil? there was some discussion of the strategy aspects fo playing supposedly Evil leaders in a Good manner (oddly little talk of doing Good as Evil...) and I got to wondering:


What mechanics could be put in place to add more flavor to odd combinations?


It would be interesting to see some unique Religion + Civilization combinations.

Addopting the Order will cause Evil Civilizations to go Good. So why not place a building in Unquestioning Obedience (or whatever the tech name is just past founding the Order) that is Calabim only called "Blood Bank" which allows you to feed once per turn in that city without loss of population?

Or place an Elohim only Building under the second Rank from Ashen Veil which grants them a Planar Gate like ability (maybe called Contract with the Underworld or something).

A Bannor/Elohim only Ritual under Ashen Veil called "Betrayal" which requires them to be followers of Order, but upon completion moves them to Ashen Veil, adds 20 to the AC and converts 20% of all Order cities in the world to Ashen Veil.

More ideas I am sure are quite possible. Like something in Arete for Elves who decide they want to move underground. Or something in the second rank of FoL for Dwarves that just want to climb a tree and never look back. Or maybe even some Science type upgrades/Units at the end of the Magical Tech Tree for the Khazad to reflect them studying the mysteries of the Universe and realizing there is an option to Magic.

Anyone else with some interesting ideas out there? (not neccessarily ones that might ever be able to be implemented, just for fun )

 

[seZereth]

sounds very interesting to me, even if it stays a thought.

 

[thomas.berubeg]

this would add an interesting twist... i'm all for it!

 

[Dark Russell]

What about something for the CoE that turns all their units into barbarians (only if they are still at peace)...call it "return to savagery". Puts you at risk but the barbs could wipe out many civs... This would be useful in the late game if you behing too many techs to go to war?

 

[loocas]

something that would allow the Luchuirp to make golems with Prophecy Mark, or perhaps make demon-soul golems.

 

[Marksman77]

Or something in the second rank of FoL for Dwarves that just want to climb a tree and never look back.

Lol, this picture has got into my head and I can't stop thinking about it


Very interesting ideas. I believe these should be things that would happen very rarely. Something that just tweaks your gameplay every now and then.
You don't expect Banner to Betray more often that say once in 20 games.

 

[[NWO]_Valis]

I would never want to have it in FfH vanilla

But I can see it as a mod-mod.

 

[nealhunt]

I don't think it should be widespread, but something that tempts a civ away from the current synergistic paths would be cool. Some sort of benefit that would tempt the Elohim to fall or the Calabim to repent could be fun.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think that these effects would be better suited for random events.

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Yes, events are still under-used in FfH (well, they are used, but there is so many more cool possibilities), it would be very nice to see some civs and religion specific events, and combined civ-religion events would be nice too.

However, i think if something is done to reward civs that "change" their alignment, something should reward civs that follow their natural path too. Else it would be more interesting to go for alignment switch. This wouldn't be fun, as such occurrences should be rare. In addition it would be one more benefit for humans and not AI. It's not rare an evil civ becomes neutral by adopting runes (it's nearly always the first religion founded), but i never saw an evil civ adopt order and become good. Good civs nearly never switch, not even to neutral by adopting O.O., and never to evil. So only human players could go for those special benefits.

Events, that could reward some civs in different ways depending on whether they stick to their normal religion or another would be nice.

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Heh, don't judge events by those that are in now, they are 90+% just BtS events.

 

[Pandemonis]

What I'd really like to see, is a specific building/unit/other advantage that would give a civilization a substantial benefit when they're not following their natural path. IE: Elves that discover Arete get small siege weapons (this option has been discussed in other threads); Elohim/Bannor discovering Infernal Pact get summoning benefits, etc.

 

[Demus]

still, in that case there should be benefits for sticking with your natural alignment aswell. There should be atleast somewhat of a treshold to switch from good to evil or vice versa.

 

[xienwolf]

Well, when I was originally proposing it I meant as something to make up for what they would naturally be losing out on (Religion specific Civics or heroes that they are essentiallyl built to use). But it could be something along the lines of having 2 unique buildings and 2 unique heroes for each civilization. One on the "normal" path and another on the "abnormal." Each one with a religion/civic requirement to ensure you really do have to select between the two of them.

A decent example would be the idea of the Blood Bank Unique Building for a GOOD alignment Calabim. You can feed once per turn in that city for free (AWESOME), but you would not be able to use the Civic of Fend for Themselves (or whichever the popular one is where people only eat 1 food).

That is, if it was considered for an actual mechanic. The overall idea was just to have fun with possibilities as a purely mental exercise.

 

[Calavente]

I favor this idea ..(for what my favor's worth ... )

this would not un-balance the game : khazad have synergy with RoK, getting a bonus for going FoL won't move often the player into going FoL : you would gain a nice event, but lose the immensly profitable synergy. it will be sometime interesting but just situational.
Idem for Elves and FOL /RoK.
or Bannor going AV, they lose the synergy with Order

I understood this Idea as proposing rewards for going out of synergical paths... not for going out of 'lore' paths.
those bonus would be more so that those un-synergical path are not so bad than to make them equally porwerful with the traditionnal path.
ex khazad studying magic tech... Ljos converting to Non-FoL religion ...etc

 

[Hangly Man]

I'm curious what undead who worshiped FoL would be like, myself.

Oh crap!

 

[Lord Yanaek]

Heh, don't judge events by those that are in now, they are 90+% just BtS events.

I wasn't judging FfH events, i noticed they were mostly BtS events, and that's why i told they were still underused (still, meaning "up to now" if i didn't made a really bad English mistake ) I'm confident there will be much more in Shadow, some of them might involve civs-religion combinations

OK, the blood bank is a really nice idea. Maybe it should replace the .... how is this called in the english version? the building producing unhealthy food, wouldn't fit well with a good civ.

It would probably be better for a mod-mod, since this might involve lots of work for rare situations.

 

[nealhunt]

I agree having random events rather than predefined trade-offs for atypical behavior would be better.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

However, i think if something is done to reward civs that "change" their alignment, something should reward civs that follow their natural path too. Else it would be more interesting to go for alignment switch.

I really want rare random events to do this i.e.

A traitor from (civ) was found in your midst, planning to starta fire in Cahir Abbey.
1. Pardon the traitor but send him from your lands.(+2 with civ and alignment to good)
2. Make an example of the traitor. Kill him, but humanley.(Change to neutral)
3.Kill the traitor and nail his head to the gates of the city. (-2 with civ, change alignment to evil.

Naturally, leaders should be slanted towards certain choices.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

That seems a little too strong, but I would like events to eventually change alignment. Eventually I hope someone make a modmod where alignment is determined by the players actions (including religion/civic choices, pop-rushing, techs researched, units built, and most importantly reactions to many different events), instead of being preset at the start of the game and only changible by religious choices. But alignment shouldn't depend as much on any particular action, but rather a player's pattern of behavior. Any single event changing a players alignment by itself is too extreme (well, unless these events were extremely rare, and of much larger thematic consequence than the little event you thought up)

Still, I think that alignment should eventually be based on what you choose to do when faced with difficult choices, like random events. This would greatly enhance the game and would fit well with one civilopedia entry especially:

Spoiler :

On the day of her birth, the king decreed that his daughter would never witness the suffering of the world. So Ethne grew up in luxury, tended to by an obedient staff, and she never saw the world past the lavish gardens that surrounded the palace. She grew into a gentle-spirited girl, not expectant or demanding as one might expect of a child in her situation, but kind, without malice of any sort.

Her world remained tiny until the day she saw Splendor, a brightly colored blue and yellow parrot that came gliding over the palace hedges. Ethne was 14 and she expected the bird to come to her call, as all of the palace animals had been trained to do so, but he merely sat looking down at her from the branches of the Tulip Poplar tree.

Confused but fascinated by the strange bird she brought him fruit and nuts and after she backed away he flew down to the plate she had laid out for him. He landed beside the plate and hopped up to it on one leg, holding the other close to his body. Ethne realized he had been hurt, one of his claws was missing, and she cried for the first time she could remember as she watched him eat and hobble on the edge of the plate.

Unable to stand it, Ethne got up and came toward Splendor, wanting to somehow fix him but she only scared him away. His wings were uninjured and in a few seconds he was airborne and he flew out of the palace grounds. Ethne chased after him, overwhelmed with grief for the poor bird. She ran by the marble fountains, the topiary gardens, ponds full of sparkling fish, all without blemish, to the sculpted hedges that marked the borders of her world. And without thinking, she pushed through them and dropped onto the city street beyond into a world unlike anything she had imagined.
People pushed and shoved through crowded streets, tired horses dragged wagons through the mud, diseased beggars yelled for charity and were ignored by everyone. People argued over scraps in front of decaying buildings.

Ethne wandered the streets for hours, unable to comprehend the suffering that existed outside of the palace gates. Well past nightfall, she was stopped by a man with golden blond hair dressed in blue robes.

"Child, do you know that many search and worry for you?"

"I know." She answered, too confused to say more.

"You have been able to see the world as one outside of it, to know something of perfection and how we fall short of it. It is a rare experience for the mortal mind."

"There is so much evil," Ethne struggled to communicate her thoughts, she didn't have words for most of what she was feeling. "Everything is broken, even the palace life is wrong, when there is so much need outside of it. I haven't seen anything that is good."

The stranger knelt down beside Ethne, his grey eyes locked on her watery blue as he told the following story:

A farmer's horse jumped the fence and fled his field. The following day his neighbor came to console him for his loss, saying, 'I am sorry for the evil luck that has befallen you.'

The farmer only replied, 'Who is to say what is good and what is evil?'

The next day the horse returned and it brought a wild horse with it. The neighbor came back and congratulated the farmer on his good fortune.

The farmer only replied, 'Who is to say what is good and what is evil?'

A week later the farmer's son was trying to tame the new horse when he was thrown from it and broke his leg. Again the neighbor came back to curse the farmers bad fortune.

The farmer only replied, 'Who is to say what is good and what is evil?'

On the following day the captain came to the town to recruit men for the war and passed by the farmers son because of his broken leg. Once again the farmer said to the neighbor, 'Who is to say what is good and what is evil?'

Ethne considered the story before replying, "If this is not evil, then what is?"

"Good, or evil, isn't what happens to you. It isn't creation. It is what you do about it. When you return to your palace after seeing this, how you have changed will be for good or for evil."

Ethne returned to the palace that night, and she took to her studies with a new fervor. She had the hedges removed and looked daily out into the country she was the princess of, determined to take the lesson to heart.