strategic resources discussion

[Tarzan737]

i would like to see strategic resources more important, like why be able to build mechanized infantry
without oil or iron?

it should be completely devastating to a civ that is completly pillaged in a war, the only thing they
should be able to build is non mechanized units if no resources (ofcourse they can get help by trading)

it should be more tactical in a war to take out resources to a civ but i feel it is too easy to get weapons.

And to make strategic resources more important can help small civs to get important in the game
if they have resources.

and if building a city on a strategic resource you cant take that out? am i right?
how solve that problem?

and be able to tax strategic resources from vassals could be a nice thing..

some thoughts, what do you think?

 

[Stalker0]

So one of the simplest ways to change it for your own games is to lower the strategic resources on various map settings. Communitas_79 for example has a few settings. You can lower the number of strategic resource piles, the amount per pile, or both. Try this out, when strategics become scarcer you will definately feel an increase in their value, and the sting when they are pillaged.

 

[Tarzan737]

So one of the simplest ways to change it for your own games is to lower the strategic resources on various map settings. Communitas_79 for example has a few settings. You can lower the number of strategic resource piles, the amount per pile, or both. Try this out, when strategics become scarcer you will definately feel an increase in their value, and the sting when they are pillaged.

yes i know, i have played with these settings. but this affect everyone in the game, i have nothing against
that civilizations have a lot of resources and some others not, i just want to be able to make it more important and be able to be a tactical and political thing to.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I had some games where strategics were very crucial. Mostly on standard size maps and without conquering much. In one game as Germany I conquered an allied city state because it had the only large iron deposit in raged, which I needed for my cruisee fleet. All the civ's bonuses cry for keeping them as an ally, but having secure iron supply was more important to me.

When I conquer a lot, strategics become less valuable as you have so many in your territory.

All in all, I feel they are in the right spot now. With options to make them scarce or also to give a balanced distribution to allow every civ to use their UUs.

 

[Fluffball]

I think this is one of those real world vs gameplay issues where it can seem strange but is actually better this way for gameplay reasons.

I remember one particular game back when i was playing civ 3 and i essentially won the game very early with the discovery of saltpeter as i managed to grab the only saltpeter in the area and that crippled all the AI's around me as they couldn't upgrade even their most basic units. In a way it was a great relief as i was having issues before that point but overall it wasn't that fun as that one roll of the dice crippled the AI so badly i was just cruising to victory from that point and i was glad that situation was an exception rather than the norm.

Wasn't this experimented with not so long ago where all ships from ironclads upwards needed a strategic resource and it was quickly adjusted as it was completely unbalanced where if you lucked out you basically had no chance of even defending yourself against a naval invaision?

The current system seems very balanced in that you can field a good defensive military at least without any strategic resources but the more advanced and offensively impactful units are gated behind strategic resources.

In real world terms this seems quite reasonable also as what might been seen as basic military equipment can be acquired by almost any fighting force without access to any strategic resources, even taking the example mentioned of mechanised infantry where even most irregular armies have mechanised infantry in the form of 'technicals' as basics like guns, ammunition, vehicles and oil can be bought fairly easily yet more advanced units generally require secure access to resources to be able to reliably be able to build or keep those units supplied.

Again looking at real world scenarios a lack of a reliable source of oil and rubber did not stop Germany fielding mobile infantry units throughout the war and in the latter part of the war this mobility and flexibility is one of the reasons they held out so well for so long with units being able to move quickly from flashpoint to flashpoint, in part because they found ways to produce synthetic versions to supply their basic demands but being able to field more advanced offensive units like tanks and aircraft which used vast quatities of oil to keep going relied heavily on securing a proper source of oil, which is why in the latter part of WW2 with the loss of the access to actual oil fields in the east most German aircraft were destroyed on the ground as they had no fuel to fly and the few tanks they were still building were usually destroyed by the Germans themselves when they ran out of fuel and had to abandon them.

 

[KlHannibal2]

I think this is one of those real world vs gameplay issues where it can seem strange but is actually better this way for gameplay reasons.

I remember one particular game back when i was playing civ 3 and i essentially won the game very early with the discovery of saltpeter as i managed to grab the only saltpeter in the area and that crippled all the AI's around me as they couldn't upgrade even their most basic units. In a way it was a great relief as i was having issues before that point but overall it wasn't that fun as that one roll of the dice crippled the AI so badly i was just cruising to victory from that point and i was glad that situation was an exception rather than the norm.

Wasn't this experimented with not so long ago where all ships from ironclads upwards needed a strategic resource and it was quickly adjusted as it was completely unbalanced where if you lucked out you basically had no chance of even defending yourself against a naval invaision?

The current system seems very balanced in that you can field a good defensive military at least without any strategic resources but the more advanced and offensively impactful units are gated behind strategic resources.

In real world terms this seems quite reasonable also as what might been seen as basic military equipment can be acquired by almost any fighting force without access to any strategic resources, even taking the example mentioned of mechanised infantry where even most irregular armies have mechanised infantry in the form of 'technicals' as basics like guns, ammunition, vehicles and oil can be bought fairly easily yet more advanced units generally require secure access to resources to be able to reliably be able to build or keep those units supplied.

Again looking at real world scenarios a lack of a reliable source of oil and rubber did not stop Germany fielding mobile infantry units throughout the war and in the latter part of the war this mobility and flexibility is one of the reasons they held out so well for so long with units being able to move quickly from flashpoint to flashpoint, in part because they found ways to produce synthetic versions to supply their basic demands but being able to field more advanced offensive units like tanks and aircraft which used vast quatities of oil to keep going relied heavily on securing a proper source of oil, which is why in the latter part of WW2 with the loss of the access to actual oil fields in the east most German aircraft were destroyed on the ground as they had no fuel to fly and the few tanks they were still building were usually destroyed by the Germans themselves when they ran out of fuel and had to abandon them.

Yeah, well put. As for all later ships requiring resources: that also hugely gavored snowballing. If you managed to conquer some land and gain enough strategics, you can have a strong fleet. But if you play peacefully and are kust unlucky to get no / frw strategics, you had no way to defend against a fleet.

I think the balance is quite good now. In most eras you have a clear advantage with strategis compared to without strategics. But you are not completely crippled without them.

 

[Teholb]

I think this would best be left to modmod territory. Some of my favorite civs rely on early strategics to achieve their power spike, and I do not see an issue with the current arrangement.