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Strategy discussion

Good luck, and give us feedback! :) (Somewhere in the future I'll try again my failed attemp of achieving a domination victory with Japan, and all info about Japan will be of great help).
 
I am going to try that peaceful approach this weekend. I guess I am prejudiced from playing regular CIV4, in which, if you are Japan, you have to do something about China sooner or later. IMHO

But I can see in RFC how China is not as much of a potential threat. Also I noticed that the Mongols don't seem to settle the area North of Korea that much (compared to CIV4).

Still, I am skeptical. I just don't think it is possible to get the first objective peacefully.... but I'll try

Ryry

I have already done it peacefully(monarch), it is easy, Japan is tech powerhouse, so focus on points from techs, eventually some wonders(I had 2), building Apostolic Palace helps bit with production;) .

Here is my 1505 AD save, to see how I have done it. Then it was just siting to wait until 1850 AD:) .
 

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Does anyone have a good strategy of winning Ottomans as Arabs? In my game I lost a city to them in war because of the damn cannons and trebuchets. Though I burned their capital, that sweetened the deal a bit.
 
Hitti, the best tactic is to really just ignore them, they are needed as part of your attacking goals.

My advice is to never in settle that part of the middle east, go as far north as Babylon and As-hur (sur) and stop there. Then head into egypt and cathage before finally galley'ing across to spain.

Do not give them as-hur, but move all your defenders out of it, and hold in babylon and the city south of as-hur, moving them north only to defend it from attack. Generally if persia is still alive (if you did 3000bc unlocked! which in my opinion is the better option for playing the UHV) they will also go to war with turkey, and soak up a lot of the damage (very useful to only take babylon and leave rest to them, your culture will hold them back enough to give you good tiles but still have some left for war with turkey.

By doing this you force turkey into a small corridor, and generally they'll waste troops in attack against you and persia (get gunpowder from word go, and musketmen will defend you easily!) and if you are lucky, ask for vassalage then you can spread islam and have a buffer against Europe.
 
Well, Persia didn't exist, and I didn't settle farther than Najaf. They didn't immediately declare war, they first settled down for couple of turns and then rushed with cannons and trebuchets.
 
I have to add to coko's ideas that if they have cannons already, try to get those cavalries ASAP (+50% :strength: against cannons, remember? And enough strengh to beat some trebuchets). Once you got some cavalries, start to raid their lands, as soon as they declare war. That will distract them until you have enough army to mount a decent attack. One you conquer a city, give it back to them, asking for peace. This is usually enough. Another clue is try to be friend of the Greeks. They're usually willing to kick some turkey ass, specially if Turkeys got Constantinople from them. If you're lucky enough to spread Islam into greece, cooperate with them is usually a win-win situation.
 
Hitti, try playing the unlocked version and starting in 3000bc, I find otherwise the Arabian UHV is soo difficult!
 
I suck as Mongolia. I can't seem to crank out enough military units.

Please help!
 
It is a very hard one to crack. I'll look into it later, however I find to tackle the Chinese you'd likely need siege equipment, as the horses while strong, will just die too much! And you need them for over taking locations with ease. So slave whipping lots of siege weapons could be the way.

The raze cities is fine, you can finish that whenever, but is it the world population? Well take good cities raze the rest. I'd not advise going through india because siege doesn't go through jungle...

Turkey/Persia/Russia will have good populations, might be best to worker roads all the way to their borders and rush them that way...Russia will be hard if you let them get to curr's.
 
coko@ Didn't go for UHV, just wanted tips to survive against Ottomans.


Few tips for surviving as Ethiopia:

1) Arabia: Your friend. Convert to Islam if possible. If it isn't, then don't turn to any religion, because then you would be easy prey for them. Just try to be friends with them by being generous in trades.

2) Egypt: Must be destroyed. Try to strive against Egypt before Arabia pops up. It's pretty easy, even good relations with them aren't a bad thing yet. When Arabia rises, wait when they declare war to Egypt. Soon they will ask you to join them, and agree to do it, even if you don't have yet your stack of death. You can raze other cities(I razed all others), but just don't raze Niwt-rst, even if other Egyptian cities have an overwhelming culture. It shall be your most important city later. I used only horse archers and catapults, they were all I needed as Egypt wasn't advanced.

3) European nations + Ottomans: Try to stay cautious or pleased, they are important tech trade partners. If all Europe is Christian(in my save it was split in Jews, Moslems and Christians), take free religion or no religion. You need 3-4 + Arabia as reliable trade partners to keep up in tech race, it's not always easy. Portugal and Netherlands are useful trade companions, as they give open borders easily.

4) Asian nations: Get all techs they have but you don't if possible, usually Khmer doesn't have any(in my game Japan is really advanced, even ahead Europeans). Khmer and India(in some cases China too) can be used to get you money by selling cheap techs and maps to get much money.

5) Natives: Impis are really annoying when battling against Egypt. Just get enough axemen to fight them off. My biggest problem was their speed and pillaging, but I got rid of it by building more units and placing them on strategic positions. 2 axemen and an archer are enough early on. City of Gondokoro is a great place to have a city, it blocks some of the Impi attacks and forces them either north or west. Moqdisho is a bad place for a city in this case, they can pillage too easily then.

6) Barbarians: Camel archers are your biggest threat until you get some pikemen and war elephants on the battlefield. You just need to overpower them and possibly leave them an another target, like an independent city.

Someone else could do this better than me, my first game as Ethiopia after all, but I've managed it surprisingly well IMO.
 
Presently I am still unable to even get close to their UHV, I think the only hope is some amazing luck in attacking egypt, pumping out prophets and popping islam before Arabia arrive.

Towards fighting impi's, archers are a better option than axemen sometimes because impi's won't get a bonus fighting them, longbowmen even better! I like to send my second settler two the east coast, 2 places south of the incense, then I can get to the horses and incense and it isn't too low on population.

Eygpt is your main task in destroying as Hitti said, from my experience they use a mix of axemen and chariots, so you'll need good counters. Again good idea letting arabia declare war and helping them. However have you considered an invasion of parts of arabia? I find Ur...is always jewish centre, and sometimes christian holy land, taking it gives a huge pot of gold, and with arabia subdued (take makkah) they will collapse and you can ignore their less productive locations. With Ur owned and independents covering your eastern coast mainly, you can have limited defences there and concentrate on keeping the barbs and natives from destroying your old lands.

To this aim, I prefer two archers and a spearmen/pikemen as this will handle any attacks. Generally they don't destroy most of your improvements, but they love your workers and those are important!

Towards actually dealing with arabia, I try getting them once I'm steady in egypt, with two cities there and two at home I can produce a good sized army, mainly of swordsmen/macemen and spearmen/pikemen and as many catapults as possible(2 to 1 is good really, with that you will find yourself wasting the catapults in attack but can just produce them back home and not worry about replacing other troops!)

Then go back to africa and move south, take those lovely areas in the south from the natives, either by using a few galley's to take siege or rushing men in. With that sorted you'll be high in score, but your tech will be suffering. However I find you can now convert to christainity, you'll see your money rise up with Ur's growth, and you can slowly make egypt a production centre. Turn south africa into money zone as well and you'll be happily catching up!
 
Well, basically I didn't attack to Arabia because I couldn't afford a big enough army, and couldn't build enough units fast enough to kill those longbowmen in Arabia.
 
True, it can be a problem, your main city (generally starting point) is good for production once it is up and running but can't be whipped, however egypt generally can be whipped, and once you've got a position in Ur you can slow down and build up slowly. I do find the AI really doesn't handle counter attacks very well, very piecemeal, easy to defeat.
 
I havent completed Ethiopias UHV, yet, but I will, probably tonight but maybe I wont have time, I dunno. Eitherway I have managed to found Christianity on two occasions now. The very first time is explained at the start of the Ethiopia UHV thread and the most recent occasion (last night) is on page 6.

I remembered to upload a save of it this time so that people can verify I done it and maybe play on from there. Anyway the link can be found here...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232473&page=6

Third post down.

If I complete the Ethiopian UHV I will try again a few times and post some more hints if they are viable. Having said that I *think* I have already tried just about everything and that just about everything has been discussed already.

As far as I can tell if Jerusalem is Independant on turn 122/123 restart because you wont be founding Christianity (It pops up around 123/124). If it isnt founded before turn 135, restart, because you wont be founding it that way either and founding Islam as Ethiopia is just pants. Big stinky fat mans pants.

By my calculations the fastest you can research Theology to found Christianity is by turn 132. I may be wrong on that by 1 or 2 turns eitherway but as far as I can tell thats the fastest you can get it. I got it on turn 135. As a test I reloaded my save two turns before and on turn 135 switched to another tech. Someone else founded Christianity the turn after.
 
Does anyone have any tips for playing as Germany? I'm struggling really badly. The Roman Empire is often so big that all the good city spots (Frankfurt, Austrian cities etc) are taken. I did try to mass product catapults and maceman to try and defeat Rome, but very quickly realised that it just isn't going to work. I normally found Berlin, Memel and another city beginning with 'L' (forgotten the name, but its used to get Iron). I've normally get quite disheartened very easily as I toil between whether going for Astronomy (to found cities on other continents) or being the first to get something like Rifling first. Add to add, in the last couple of games, the Roman Empire has developed an annoying habit of delcaring war with me on the 3rd turn, which puts me completely off. What civilizations should I aim to conquer first? What technologies should I try and get first? Am I founding the right cities?

Any help would be very greatly apprechiated. I've played plenty of games of RFC, but have not actually won one (mainly because I don't ever try for UHV, and because I'm a really, really terrible civilization player).
 
Well, it's been a while since I play Germany, but my first victory in RFC was with them! I had several good games with them, though I've never been able to get their UHV.

The key to play Germany is to be agressive, but in a selective way. Getting those austrian cities is a high priority (didn't they flip to you?). If Rome declares war early on you probably is because Caesar may be given the choice of let them flip, or fight. The thing you should do is attack, lefting a reasonable amount of macemen and longbowmen at home (say 2-3). Don't worry too much if they carry a huge stack of troops: many of them will flip to you.

To make a good attack you can't just build maceman and catapults. You need a couple of defenders (bows), and you will like to send also some horse archers to Italy, and pillage around. They will probably die, but it will Caesar busy while your army approaches.

Also, keep an eye on your neighbours. If you convert to Christianism early on, you may have the chance to ask Isabella and Alexander (if it's alive!) to help you. Isabella will like to go for Caesar's cities in north Africa, and Alex may help you in Austria, or north Africa, as well. Ask them to attack Carthage, for example, once they declared war by going into the option 'Let's talk about other things..'. By default, Isabella and Alex will send their navy to terrorize the Italian coast, and if they reach to dissembark on Africa, Caesar may even not send you a single soldier. He won't care about some cities in the borders if thier coast is under attack.

Once you conquer a couple of roman cities under your spawning area, and the 10 compulsory turns of uncommunication have passed, ask for peace.

Rome will have trouble with stability at this point, and it may collapse if your friends are able to conquer one or two more cities.

From here, you have many ways to follow. 70% of the time, I attack the frenchies, just because 90% they will do it if you go to war with another neighbour. Don't care too much on expanding overseas. Think what Bismarck said to his Foreign Minister when he asked about sending settlers to Africa: 'Africa? My colonies are Poland, and Denmark. I can't think on wasting my resources on expeditions, while Russia and France are putting a dagger in my back'. After giving a strike, if not a killing blow to France, I usually go after Russia (or Vikings, time to time), to get Poland and the Balkans. If greeks collapse, I'll consider expansion to the mediterraneum before Ottomans take that land. At this point, you'll have a big empire that helds most of central and maybe eastern Europe. Then you can concentrate on research if you go for a tech race or the UHV (in this case you will need further wars, where I usually I lose the control on the situation).
Thinking in overseas expansion is a bad idea, I think: where will you go? Soth America? You'll engage in problems with Spanish and French. Australia or India? Hmm... England's powerful army can give you a great headache. Africa? Not the south, apply the same for India. North Africa may be an option, specially if you were able to take the balkans and get a coastal city in the mediterraneum. Arabia or Egypt (in the strange case that they have survived) isn't a huge enemy after medieval time, as long as they usually fall behind in tech. Beware of their relation with the ottomans!

I guess this most of the advice I can give you. Luck with the Germans, they are one of my favourite civs to play RFC!
 
Thank you very much for the advice. Germany is my favourite civ to play in RFC, and once I finally win a game with them, I'll move on and try to win with other civs.

Normally, it's not that Rome has the city locations in Austria, it's that their borders expand through the city spots, so I can't found cities in Austria. The greeks almost always collapse within about 5 turns of founding, so I'll try and grab that land. When Rome is defeated, my plan would be to destroy France, and then Russia.
 
Having noticed the wiki is without a Carthage strategy guide, here's what worked for me on Monarch.

Carthage
You have 3 relatively easy goals as Carthage, but two of them have to be accomplished by 350AD, which can be pretty tight because you'll probably have to take or raze Babylon.

UHV:
(1) Secure 3 dye by 350AD
(2) Control 5 mediterranean cities by 350AD
(3) Be the first to circumnavigate

Opening Moves
Found on the spot with the settler (your second one is in a galley). Defend with an archer and send the other two archers moving by land across africa towards egypt. Load the 3 nubian cavalry into the galleys, and head east. Have one work boat work the fish, and send the other east behind your galleys (it'll probably make contact with Egypt for you).

When you run into Egypt, you can generally trade some techs, and afterwards sign open borders - do so. Try to trade with Greece for techs, but they probably won't. You can OB to check out Athens, but generally its poorly defended - they defend the marble instead...

Anyway, declare on greece when your galleys can get next to Athenai in 1 turn - in two games i played they defended only with a warrior, something your nubians will eat even when attacking from the galley. If you're lucky, you'll also pick up their two workers. Heal that cavalry, hire a mercenary (it'll appear in athens next turn). Next turn load the mercenary (your nubian is probably still healing), and send both galleys towards Urshalim/Sur.

Check out the situation - if Babylon controls Sur, its going to be annoying - especially if they have many archers there. Take Urshalim first (this may require ferrying more mercenaries from athenai), and then build up for Sur, probably as part of a Babylon campaign. In this case, your settler can be taken back to the dye next to Egypt and founded as Barca (west of the Dye).

If Sur is independent, land your units north of it (including the settler) - what you have should be sufficient to take it next turn. It'll auto-raze, allowing you to found on the forested hill instead (I think its Gebil? I renamed it Antioch). (Babylon culture will prevent you from claiming those two dye immediately, but you're in position to do so now. Founding next to the dye near egypt first is a mistake because if you don't found this city now, you're going to be tight on time to do so later since you'll have to capture or raze Babylon first). Hire more mercenaries, go get the healing cavalry, and push south to take Urshalim. I rename it Tyre to stay true to my Phoenician roots.

A note on mercenaries: don't feel bad about sacrificing them early in an offensive to weaken the opposing units so your units can destroy them. A dead mercenary no longer needs to be paid.

At this point you have 4/5 mediterranean cities, almost have 2 dye (except for Babylon's culture), and have access to a site for a 5th city with a dye next to it - Barca. Athens should build a settler as soon as it hits size 4, whip it when able, and galley it across.

Remember those two archers in N Africa? One should be stopped where Barca is going to be. The other should continue East and help garrison one of your two cities there.

Now all you need to do is push Babylon so you can claim those two dye next to your city.

And what are your cities doing?
Your UP to get cheap mercenaries means your cities should be focusing on things other than unit production. In particular, they need Cothons ASAP for the +1 Trade Route. After the Cothon, i generally set my capitol to the Great Lighthouse.

Similarly, your first tech should be currency, followed by mathematics (for catapults - you'll need them later). After that you should either research essential military technologies (like iron working if you can't get it in trade), or tech towards optics for caravels. Calendar is nice, but you don't need it for your UHV (secure just means in your city radius).

The Siege of Babylon
You actually have almost enough units in the middle east to take Babylon, what you need are some catapults. When Athens has a Cothon/Library and has built a settler for Barca, its time to start massing catapults and ferrying them over to the ME. 3-4 of them should be enough. If you feel you're short on units, hire some mercenaries just before you declare war. They'll have 4-5 bowmen and maybe some warriors - you should walk over them pretty easily. At that point, you can either finish them off or make peace.

Where to go from here?
You now have 3 dye and 5 mediterranean cities, so your first 2 goals are done. You might also have a pile of cash from conquests. At this point i tend to turtle and tech like mad for Optics. I generally grab the Great Library, and try for other wonders that could be useful. (The Colossus is also a great grab).

If you go for the Great Wall, you want it in Africa. Your "Asian" (Middle Eastern) cities are well buffered by Babylon (if you made peace) and Persia from most potential barbarians, and you have a decent army for any camels coming out of the desert - make some spearmen if you need them and you'll be fine. Athenai will get attacked occasionally from the north, but mostly those barbarians will go after Rome. There is a good choke, and you might consider founding Byzantion to dual choke into Turkey and towards Athenai from the northern barbarians.

Once you get Optics, upgrade your starting Trireme if you still have it, and send it south around SAm. If you were lucky, Egypt built a city that let you shortcut into the red sea from the Med and you've got a map out to NZ already. If not, build some more caravels.

At this point, you can either sit back and wait to circumnavigate, or you can go builder or conquest. Expanding into Anatolia or northern Greece is possible, as Turkey shouldn't spawn before you circumnavigate. You can alternately push through Persia and into India if you want to go warmonger, or take out Egypt. Whatever you're doing, you're just killing time while you tech optics and sail your ships.

Things to watch out for
At some point Rome will probably declare on you. They won't do much however. They may try to snipe your fishing boats. If you see an opportunity to sink a galley with your trireme, take it. You can often get them to make peace with you immediately afterwards. Fighting Rome (unless you set out to do so early) in earnest is a bad idea, as the Legionaire is too much for your cavalry to handle. Its also totally unnecessary to defeat rome to meet your UHV - they have no dye and the mediterranean is a big place.

Barbarians in North Africa will be horrendous while you're out circumnavigating the globe if you teched fast enough. This means you can seriously not care about them pillaging your improvements because you're just waiting on that galley. Stock axes and spears in your cities and wait. Taking the fight out of the cities is dangerous, and you'll probably want war elephants to do so - India might trade you Ivory, or you can found in Morocco to grab the elephants there.
 
Chinese UHV, 600AD start
There was a request for a guide to chinese uhv for the 600AD start in another thread. So here is mine, worked for me on monarch.

600AD A lot of work to be done, 16 temples and 4 cathedrals within 40 turns! Sounds impossible, but it can be done...

Found Bejing on the spot, start building worker, 2 workers start pasture the pigs, one settler S to found Guiyang NW of copper (important for academys and pagodas) together with archer, cuz Khmer tend to declare war at some point, the other settler goes E to found Shenyang between wheat and pigs, horsearcher moves SE to Hangzhou (no defender), one Cho-Ko-Nu S to Guangzhou (spearman defender), the other to tibet (2 warrior in Lhasa one swordsman NW of Lhasa), 2 swordsmen E to Seoul. Change Civic to Bureaucracy / Slavery (1 turn anarchy) and start teching for monotheism.
tech path: monotheism - engineering (for pikemen and castles) - guilds - banking (for your suffering economy) - philosophy - nationalism (for drafting your third victory condition)

On the next turn Qufu and Xi'an flip to you they have both temples each already built. The archer can stay in Qufu, one spearman to Bejing the other to Shenyang to defend from barbarians. Switch to confucianism.

All towns start with building a worker. Except Guangzhou and Hangzhou they will build a workboat and whip it when reaching pop 2.

When the pigs are done the first worker moves to build a mine on the iron next to bejing, the other chops the silk. For now only chop, never build the ressources it costs to much time and your towns won't be working more than 2 tiles anyway. And only build roads where its usefull for your missionaries, all ressources can be connected quick after 1000AD with 10 or more workers running around.

Guangzhou is easy for your Cho-Ko-Nu, and so is Lhasa. The one from Guangzhou should go up to Xi'an if a swordman spawns between there and Lhasa (happened once to me, very annoying).
Seoul has a Longbowman vs 2 of your swordsmen. Its about 50% chance to succeed. If you don't...just reload :)

In 660AD China should look like this:

On the next turn Lhasa will fall, which in fact is pretty useless. Its town number 9 and i just use it for building workers. 2 until 1000AD, after that do what you like. Switch to Hereditary Rule and Organized Religion religion on your next turn.

Babarians from the north are a pain, but with 2 spearmen each in bejing and shenyang and maybe walls you are save. They dont pillage so let them come but be carefull with your workers.

Spearmen can be whipped in one turn, so i wait with that until barbarians appear. In my winning game the first wave actually game before i connected the iron, but i put the spearman on the hill while my worker was working and they just attacked and died.

The worker built in bejing irrigates the wheat N of Qufu, the worker captured in Korea builds a road to shenyang and pastures the pig. The worker which chopped the silk goes to Xi'an and the other stays at bejing. Qufu worker goes to Hangzhou and Guiyang worker starts mining the copper.

Bejing, Qufu and Xi'an will be building missionaries until all towns except Lhasa have confucianism and taoism. Remember there can be no more than 3 of one type so build them evenly and also make sure every city gets one religion first so they can start with the temples right away. When Qufu is done with missionaries build more workers here.

The procedure for building is always chop, then whip. Even whip if its done in one turn to produce more hammers for your next task. Also make sure that you always finish 4 temples of one type so you can start with one cathedral.
They will be built in Bejing, Xi'an, Hancheng and Guiyang. Xi'an should not use more than 2 chops for missionaries, that leaves three for the cathedral, it will stay at 2 pop so DONT whip there!! You also need 2 mines to work at Xi'an or you won't finish in time. This should be the first cathedral to start.

After that you start in Bejing cuz the other towns will still be busy with the temples. Start moving workers south as soon as possible. Guangzhou and Hangzhou are always last when finishing temples.

Always connect one food ressource for each town so it can regrow fast. Hancheng can produce 2 woarkboats in between temples and Guiyang can be your last cathedral, with 5 chops left and all your workers free it can finish in 3 or 4 turns.

Right now it should be 1000AD, take a deep breath and go on for your next challange. 200 Years until the mongols arrive.
All your workers are free to connect every ressource thats lying around, northern towns should build castles, qufu builds grocer and bank when available. Forge in all towns. And after that units, units, units...
Focus on cheap pikemen, and maybe some cho-ko-nu. Dont forget to whip everytime you can. Your military presence will solve the unhappyness.

If Khmer or Japan declare war on you, just dont care. They wont send anything that could harm you. Just be sure to spread your troops evenly.

When in 1200AD the mongols appear they will be no match. They didnt even dare to declare in my game. bejing and shenyang are right outside their boarders so no flipping occurs.

Wait til 1400 to get your golden age. Switch to nationhood when available and draft what is neccessary to hit the 120 troops mark. So after hitting goal number one its fairly easy.

Hope that was not to confusing and it helps :)
 
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