Strategy discussion

Every time you whip the population you create an extra unhappy face for a given duration. Optimally the city will be growing back to its original size before this anger wears off. So when left unchecked the city will just keep growing beyond the limit and you have an unhappy city.

Instead of letting it grow back so fast you hire specialists to consume most but not all of the excess food used for growth. Then when the pop nears the happy cap you simply switch production to a settler or worker which stops growth and when the anger fully wears off you can fire or whip the specialists.
 
I was reading the strategy wiki, and there was something that confused me. Here's the link. http://wikirhye.wikidot.com/rfc-chinese-strategy#toc2

The passage I'm referring to tells me to change my workers to scientists (or merchants or artists) as they grow past the happy limit. "This, in short, is how to handle the whip in food-rich cities. Build something until the city reaches its happy limit, then (probably) switch to a worker or settler. Depending on how unhappy the city is, you may either whip that or the next build. Rinse and repeat. On growth, hire specialists."

What I don't understand is how hiring these specialists has anything to do with the happy limit of my cities, or unhappiness in general. It seems they just further lower the hammer-gold-food output of my cities and slow down my production.
Basically you want to keep the city from growing if it has reached its happiness limit. It's something I do on almost every game (except where I can afford a little unhappiness in my cities). Better to change a worker to a specialist beforehand than to an unhappy citizen, right?
 
America BTS Monarch

I finally got the American UHV. I started as Mali. I was actually going for the Mali UHV, but realized I was no where close to getting it around 1400 or so, (I lost a city to Impi, other probs), so I rode it out and flipped to America.

It is hard to give an exact America strategy because the starts can be so different, but assuming you do not "cheat", you will probably get a start like mine. England and France were in the USA in their usual places (France in NE Canada and New Orleans, and England on the East Coast... although the French may also have had Savannah... can't remember). But, I got lucky in that there was no super-power (often Germany is a huge super-power), and England AND France were weak. France actually collapsed before I had to declare war for N.O. (Savannah flipped).... and England collapsed pretty quick.

So, here are some generic suggestions:
1) Get a decent start. If you see on start that England is really powerful AND they already have a city on the West Coast, give it up. Or if Germany is way ahead in tech, or whatever. America is hard. With a bad starting position it is just a waste of time.
2) You will get extra units one turn after the start (as most of you know) when the cities flip. Take out England first. So....
3) If it looks safe, send 1 galleon immediately around Africa and to Asia to make contact with all the non-Euro civs, good chances for tech trades there. Move 1 settler and 1 rifle toward Chicago and settle it (between the two cornfields). This will be an awesome city for you. Lots of forest to chop and good cottage spam, and it will grow super quick. Move the missionary to Washington and found Christianity. Turtle the other settlers in Washington for the moment. Move all military units north to take out England. I usually adopt Slavery and Representation and Organized religion and Occupation. I think slavery and occupation are a must.
4) Bee-line for democracy. Take physics if someone offers it or you can buy it. Airships help a lot, both in softening up cities, and they help out your navy. You'll never be able to kill an English frigate or SoL without some air attacks. (The English ships have too many promotions).
5) If the English have "York-Factory" I would raze it, but it is kind of a 50/50 thing. But if you are successful you will have soooooo many cities, and York-Factory sucks.
6) You made need to consider Geo-politics. Depending on the world set up, and how long it is taking you to kick the English out, you might stop your war with them but leave them one city. You'll have to take it out later, but if you leave only one city, and it is a small one (in tundra, either a York-Factory or in Newfoundland), it will not grow much, and they will not really re-inforce it. Otherwise, kick England out and then go for France. Workers should build lots of mines and factorys around Washington and NY for future wonder building. And leave some forest for chopping. Chop them once you start the statue of liberty. Any GP's should focus on Engineers cause they can rush your wonders.
7) Once you are confident that the English or French are not the threat to the middle of the continent, send out the settlers to found cities in the middle. It'll depend on your exact situation, but you'll see the good spots. There is gold in the north if you need it, and settling a Sante Fe or Houston is good for the oil. Try to keep your cities well spaced out. You want to settle as few as possible. Assuming there is no one on the west coast save one settler to found either San Fran or Vancouver as soon as possible. It is a real pain to get units over there if you have to take out someone.
8) If there is someone on the west coast already, consider taking central america (often to can get the independent city Chic Izeta (something) in a World Congress), and building a fort to make a Panama Canal.). Dog Soldiers will be a pain in the middle of the USA and in N.O., but on the west coast they are usually not a problem. Anyway, you do not have to develop the west coast right away, just get a city to block others, so you can hunker down in the city for a while. (no workers or improvements for the Dog Soldiers to plunder, and a rifleman in the city can easily hold off three dog soldiers per turn)
9) Keep slavery for a long time, certianly until you finish the pentagon. Try to get a settler into the Caribean to block the Spanish there. If you need to take out the Spanish in Central America or Carib, don't neglect Galleons.
10) If you bee-line all the techs for the Statue, the Pentagon and The UN you should be OK on those. A good tactic is to keep the Euros at war with each other as much as possible, to stop them from building any of them. So watch where the Euros are in tech, and if one offers to got to war against another one, and asks you along, and it looks like they are not a threat, well take it (example, Russia asks you to fight Germany, and Germany already has Assembly Line.....)
11) The hardest thing is getting the Euros out of N and C America. If you can get that you are probably going to make it, though you can lose out in the wonders race by a few turns, so save a lot, in case you miss the Pentagon by one turn, you can always reload and whip it.
12) Once you have the Pentagon and the Euros are out of the Americas, you can change civs. It will kind of depend on your situation (have a lot of vassals, then Vassalage)....

The final thing is to get the 10 oil resourses. Suggestions:
1) If they offer, take Egypt as a vassal. If they don't, keep asking them! Egypt makes a great jumping off point for an invasion of Arabia for the oil.
2) Start planning to invade Arabia (and Turkey probably), in 1900. You need a good navy, and flight. You can build Galleons in 1900 and upgrade them later.
Once you get flight, build some airports and start flying in units to Egypt. Get a naval force ready to take at least 12 units by sea.
3) There is oil in the ocean in indonesia (Borneo?). Get some workers and chop a space next to the oil for a settler. Settle there and build up the island. Put some navy and strong units there if Japan is strong. If not you may risk it. You don't need to take the oil until the last moment.
4) Run a settler up to North Alaska and get the oil there, you can also get gold.
5) Usually I cannot get Spain to let me open border into the med, so I have to go around Africa to transport troops to Arabia. I like Marines for naval assaults and paratroopers to airlift into Egypt. I never really used paratroopers until I played America. But if you can get 3-5 of them in one city and then air-drop them behind the enemy onto a nice plot of land--say a plantation or an iron mine-- it can be quite useful. If you get radio and bombers you can use less artillery, otherwise you'll need that too. Probably the Arabs, if not already, will capitulate to the Turks once you start taking their cities. So you will need to declare war on Turkey. One idea is to try to get the Arabs to capitulate to you first. You will need to take out the Turks to get all the oil, so having Egypt and Arabia on your side will help a lot. Plus, it is more cities to fly in support to. In my game (and so I assume this is true) I did not have to have the oil in my territory, it counted the oil I had in Arabia which was my vassal. And, as soon as you get enough oil, you win. You do not have to wait until 2000.

Oh, and I gift techs to Egypt and Arabia to build them up so their armies are actually useful. With the oil in America (incl in the gulf of Mexico and Alaska), the oil in Borneo, and all the mid-east oil you should get 10.

Comments?

Ryry
 
Ryry, I disagree about organized religion in Monarch mode. You need your great engineer quickly, and the best way to get it is Mercantilism and Pacifism (1 free specialist and 100% great person generation). Whipping is good, but I find that both the UN and Pentagon can be done with 1 engineer, while you really need to have the Statue covered by a GE for half its hammers. You should not whip Washington at all since instead of Occupation you should use bureaucracy. (There's actually minimal badness from city occupation since you have time to capture those cities one by one). I usually generate the GE in New York (which is already big) and save 1 for the Pentagon later.
 
Sorry, instead of Occupation use Bureaucracy?

I like slavery because growth is really fast. In fact sometimes you "over grow" becuase of immigrant from the old world, and you need to trim down a city to get out the unhappiness. Good way to convert excess population to useful buildings or units.

I agree the that the Statue of Libertry is the hardest of the three. I usually save some forest around Washington, when I get democracy, Washington builds the statue. Chop the forest. GE from NY to get about 1/2 the hammers as you said. In a pinch you can whip it the last 2 or 3 turns. But I try to avoid that. Whipping is better for normal buildings and units.

Ryry
 
Sorry, instead of Occupation use Bureaucracy?

I like slavery because growth is really fast. In fact sometimes you "over grow" because of immigrant from the old world, and you need to trim down a city to get out the unhappiness. Good way to convert excess population to useful buildings or units.

I agree the that the Statue of Liberty is the hardest of the three. I usually save some forest around Washington, when I get democracy, Washington builds the statue. Chop the forest. GE from NY to get about 1/2 the hammers as you said. In a pinch you can whip it the last 2 or 3 turns. But I try to avoid that. Whipping is better for normal buildings and units.

Yes, I meant to save a move, switch to bureaucracy, representation, pacifism and mercantilism, commonwealth and serfdom the first move. There's is so much unimproved land that until you get steam power you need the 50% speed that serfdom gives you (even if it's not historically correct). To get to Occupation (high cost) you have to waste a 4th move of anarchy, and you need the money after you've upgraded your musketmen/pikemen to riflemen, hence I use the least expensive option for expansion. Later once I've built the Statue and saved up a great engineer (and when population is an issue), and have more cities to work with, I switch to free trade and free religion and hopefully I will have several monasteries to spread those religions around. I don't think I've once used slavery (since Chicago has so many trees to chop and Phoenix or Grand Forks have so many hills around I don't lack hammers). For happiness I try to get those squirrels up north ASAP even if I don't work those tiles. Mexico also has silver so as they either vassalize to me or if they're nonexistent I conquer my way down south for silver and dye.

I also save those trees around Washington, but only to build lumbermills all around it. When I have the coal I chop that tree and build mine. Helps with health.

I guess you're more a chop and whip person, and I'm a conservator. :lol:
 
You civics idea is very interesting..... I still like Slavery for the USA, but other than that.... the commonwealth instead of occupation is probably the way to go actually. I am not sure about Pacifism though, since you have to declare war on England, France and probably Spain or Aztec (or both).

Ryry
 
1) If they offer, take Egypt as a vassal. If they don't, keep asking them! Egypt makes a great jumping off point for an invasion of Arabia for the oil.
You don't need a vassal to airlift troops into foreign city, open borders are enough.
 
Continued from another thread:

We're getting off topic here but I think instead of Pompeii if you build a city in Illyria (near the copper but not too north so Germany can't flip it) it will be much more productive and get more culture up north before Germany spawns.

I only founded Pompeii to get to Greece fast. When you found a city in Illyria (Salonae, 1N of the copper seems like a good spot), how do you move your units? Do you take Carthage first and sail around Sicily to get to Greece? Lately I noticed Carthage is more difficult to take first and in my game I crushed Greece first and waited with my praetorians in the galleys on the west coast of Sicily for the right moment to attack amphibiously. This way I also got my 2 cities in North-Africa (Carthago and Hippo).
 
I only founded Pompeii to get to Greece fast. When you found a city in Illyria (Salonae, 1N of the copper seems like a good spot), how do you move your units? Do you take Carthage first and sail around Sicily to get to Greece? Lately I noticed Carthage is more difficult to take first and in my game I crushed Greece first and waited with my praetorians in the galleys on the west coast of Sicily for the right moment to attack amphibiously. This way I also got my 2 cities in North-Africa (Carthago and Hippo).

Yes, it seems that those Carthaginian units are staying inside Carthage more. In my game they happened just to have 3 archers in Carthage so I razed it. Then went to Greece. Only later did I found Pompeii and the 2 north African cities.
 
I only founded Pompeii to get to Greece fast. When you found a city in Illyria (Salonae, 1N of the copper seems like a good spot), how do you move your units?
Just don't build Roma. It's too close to Mediolanum anyway. IMO, best place for the capital is one tile south and two tiles east, on eastern shore.
 
That would still leave the galleys on the west coast, although it's an interesting idea: playing as Rome and not founding Roma...
 
That would still leave the galleys on the west coast,
In fact, that tyle is on western coast also, it makes Italian channel as well as Pompeii.
I tried this today and I invaded Greece on third turn.
Still seem to lose, because of two troubles: 1) I was forced to raze Carthage, though it had more than 10 culture already (it was sixth or seventh turn, I think); 2) two barbarian triremes destroyed all my fishing boats close to Athenes, Non-Roma (the capital) and Mediolanum, preventing me from building last two settlers fast enough. Never seen barbarian triremes before in RFC. :(
 
Indeed it is. Totally missed that. I'm trying that the next time I will play as Rome (I'm trying to achieve UHV's for all the 3000BC start civs, Japan is next...)
 
In fact, that tyle is on western coast also, it makes Italian channel as well as Pompeii.
I tried this today and I invaded Greece on third turn.
Still seem to lose, because of two troubles: 1) I was forced to raze Carthage, though it had more than 10 culture already (it was sixth or seventh turn, I think); 2) two barbarian triremes destroyed all my fishing boats close to Athenes, Non-Roma (the capital) and Mediolanum, preventing me from building last two settlers fast enough. Never seen barbarian triremes before in RFC. :(

It's the Sea Peoples. They appear if the Libyan coast is under the fog of war. Just station a Galley next to that area, and they won't appear.
 
Anyone have a gp tech preference chart? I assume it's not the same as vanilla bts.

Thanks,
TDK
 
Anyone else find China's UHV really difficult even on middle difficulty? I've tried it several times now and come nowhere near getting the 4 catheredals. you need 8 cities, so your research drops down pretty fast as you expand. Bronze is a must, so you have to have at least one city far to the south... I've tried following the strategy guide on Wiki but it just dosent work out that way, research collapses as expansion happens, and you have no choice to expand. It's not like I'm just an idiot at the game, I can do England, Germany, Portugal, Russia, France and Babylon's UHVs. But this one, depite the optimum resources seems unbelievably difficult to me.

If anyone can confirm to me it's doable to a Noble-level player in BtS, I'll keep trying, but its its impossible for all but the top class players I'll leave it!
 
My recollection was that China wasn't particularly easy. I actually recall having more trouble discovering the early religions than building the cathedrals.

I was starting from the 3000BC start though, never tried it on the 600AD start infact. I'd imagine that the 600AD is more difficult with a few more independent cities in the way. I also recall discussion as the most recent patch came out that the tweaks to the tech costs might make the Chinese UHV harder. I succeeded on the second-to-last patch rather than the current one.
 
OK, cheers... yeah its the 3000BC start I've been trying. I suppose the star ratings game me a false impression abnout how easy it should be, maybe I'll try on an easier level. Maybe its just my skill level, but some of the UHV's just seem completely impossible to me!!
 
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