Strategy on Building Prora, Kremlin & SoL (Deity)

[Fluphen Azine]

I was reading about how another player changes Ideology to be able to build SoL and the Kremlin in his cap but I found out that you can't change Ideologies just because... so you have to be forced into it which makes this idea most likely not possible on Deity.


What do we need to accomplish this?

- I am thinking you need some faith GEs and save Your GSs to get to the techs quicker. I guess you could use some RAs as well but 2 GEs might be most important since you can hard build the first Wonder.

Statue of Liberty needs Replaceable Parts



Prora needs Flight



Kremlin needs Railroad





I haven't tried or tested this out so perhaps other stronger players can come up with a strategy quicker and post it up but I will be testing this out and trying it my future games.

 

[kb27787]

if you are culture/tpt leader you can use world ideology to cause dissidents among your people if you wish...
The tech path is kinda loopy but I'm sure SoL, Prora, then Kremlin in that order is the most efficient.

 

[Primacide]

This would be tricky to pull off. I think you have to time it so that you are receiving pressure from an AI two ticks above your current pressure on them. If you then sell sufficient lux to get past -10 unhappy, you could probably pull off the switch to another ideology in a controlled way.

How you could engineer the switch a second time is beyond me though. I think this is the kind of challenge you would have to completely gear the game to accomplish. I don't think you can pull this off just as a happenstance in the course of a normal game.

I realize that it's for a challenge, but I can't imagine why you wouldn't just wait for fool 'x' to build prora and fool 'y' to build Kremlin and then cap them both.

I personally get very excited when I see the notification that prora has been built. I think, "well I know what my next target is."

 

[Shark Diver]

I realize that it's for a challenge, but I can't imagine why you wouldn't just wait for fool 'x' to build prora and fool 'y' to build Kremlin and then cap them both.

Playing devil's advocate, I'll just say that capturing the Ideological wonder doesn't give you the free policy. That's pretty powerful at this stage of the game. Getting two free policies is somewhat powerful.

 

[Shark Diver]

I was reading about how another player changes Ideology to be able to build SoL and the Kremlin in his cap but I found out that you can't change Ideologies just because... so you have to be forced into it which makes this idea most likely not possible on Deity.
/QUOTE]

Assuming Deity, I don't think this is even close a a viable strategy. The chances of building SoL, then having enough pressure from other Ideologies to change you away from Freedom, and doing so quickly enough so that the other Ideological Wonder hasn't already been built is a total crapshoot with very skinny odds.

I do like the outside-the-box thinking, but I think you could try this 100 times and maybe pull it off once. Would it be worth it? I'm thinking even that is debatable.

Besides, give me Freedom and SoL and I don't really need happiness from Prora.

 

[kb27787]

the free SP is offset by losing your 2 early adopter tenets so in the end you've gained.... ZERO free SPs
Might as well just take it from AI

 

[GerrardCapashen]

Does Prora give you (2 + half of all your social policies) or just (2 + half your ideological tenets) in happiness?

 

[consentient]

[deleted by user]

 

[Strickl3r]

Does Prora give you (2 + half of all your social policies) or just (2 + half your ideological tenets) in happiness?

All social policies. In late game it's like Notre Dame with a free social policy added to it.

 

[consentient]

[deleted by user]

 

[phillipwyllie]

All social policies. In late game it's like Notre Dame with a free social policy added to it.

I believe it's ideological policies unlocked. I haven't went Autocracy in a long time so can't be absolutely sure.

Switching Ideologies
You need to have dissents or above to switch, it has nothing to do with unhappiness. You want the last Ideology passed asap(order as suggested above).
Oxford bulb
I was thinking it would be best for some other tech than Radio but you want Order to be passed asap so Radio it is.
GE & GS
I think on Deity you will need 2 GE and 3 GS(to bulb the ideological wonder techs).
Industrialization
Might be a good idea to bulb this, not to see if you have coal but to be able to buy whoever has it so they don't get an early ideology. I've found that the AI loves to beeline the ideological wonder tech once an ideology has been chosen. Remember you can buy a strategic resource for 1 gpt, and the AI will be happy to sell.
Plastics and the cheap techs
Might be a good idea to leave plastics until you can buy/build labs in a reasonable time. From steel to Chemistry will be cheap as all the AI's will know these, and you don't want these techs interfering with a GS bulb.

On Immortal this is very doable as on more than one occasion I've researched the ideological wonder techs before they got built. On Deity it'll be a different story, unless you can get them waring between themselves.

 

[Browd]

Prora is all social policies, not just ideological tenets.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Honestly, SoL is really useful if you're going OCC, Kremlin is eh (only built it once ever) and I have never gone Autocracy in any game to make anything out of Prora

 

[Sessy]

Just for giggles, I think there's a hypothetical situation where this would pan out. I've never actually switched ideologies, so if the mechanics are that you can switch to the preferred ideology whenever you have dissidents, here's what can happen:
1. hit modern, go freedom get SoL
2. second civ chooses autocracy and gives you dissidents.(1 point of pressure) go switch to autocracy to snipe prora. This may involve intentionally giving open borders early on. Propose order as world ideology.
3. third AI chooses order (the main problem is RNG because now 2 civs have autocracy, and order/freedom are both open). when order for world ideology passes, you can get 2 points of pressure and change to that over autocracy. then snipe kremlin.

Extremely hard, probably harder to get than any achievement.

 

[phillipwyllie]

I've given this a shot on Immortal and ran into a little snag. You can only switch to the preferred ideology. An interesting thing is you can still GE rush the wonder whilst in anarchy. It's going to take at least 3 WC votes if that's the course to switching, perhaps propose Freedom/Autocracy and take the other and hope any Order civs can flip you normally(I find the AI tends to pick Order) for the last wonder. Winning the World's Fair is probably a bad idea as is generating any art.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Also, I have to say that Prora is scarcely ever needed. If you've gone Autocracy, you ought to have gone Commerce, and the Commerce finisher is usually more than enough happiness. If you have Honor as well, station a scout in every city for another ton of happiness.

No doubt... this is not something I was thinking was going to get you to win the game faster. I just thought it was interesting that someone actually would switch Ideologies to get two wonders. I was more so intrigued thinking you could get all three. I think it could happen on Deity in a perfect set up but like Shark Diver said it is most likely long odds.

Of course it is better to just go and capture these wonders instead but for someone who plays more turtle/peaceful I thought it was interesting enough to discuss. As stated above I do not think you can do this on Deity but I can see it more viable on Immortal and below.

 

[JeSuisNapoleon]

One free policy is always worth it (Kremlin)
the happines alone make Prora worth building / capturing. Getting the free policy from building makes it super (as already mentioned).
SoL is obviously great as it make running all specialists more productive, and combined with the "specialist consume less food" option, its superb.

in order to *build* all 3, i think some careful warring might be needed to eliminate civs from the game and thus change how the ideological pressures are applied.

It really sounds impossible, which makes me think someone here will do it in the next three weeks

 

[consentient]

[deleted by user]

 

[phillipwyllie]

Prora is all social policies, not just ideological tenets.

Yeah you're right. I've done it on Immortal on t261 using 3 GE. My switching strategy was Propose Autocracy, pick Freedom, switch to Autocracy when passed, then repeal, then propose Order, switch to Order when passed. The problem was that I was only the initial host and Persia hosted thereafter. I took a substantial loan of 7500 gold from Persia just make sure Order got passed. Perhaps opening Patronage will help. I gave open borders from the moment I researched Civil Service and everybody had a DOF with me so nobody stole any techs and from about t90 I was the tech leader. One sticky point was I got the notification William was building the Kremlin so I DOWed him.

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Yeah you're right. I've done it on Immortal on t261 using 3 GE. My switching strategy was Propose Autocracy, pick Freedom, switch to Autocracy when passed, then repeal, then propose Order, switch to Order when passed. The problem was that I was only the initial host and Persia hosted thereafter. I took a substantial loan of 7500 gold from Persia just make sure Order got passed. Perhaps opening Patronage will help. I gave open borders from the moment I researched Civil Service and everybody had a DOF with me so nobody stole any techs and from about t90 I was the tech leader. One sticky point was I got the notification William was building the Kremlin so I DOWed him.

So do you think it is possible on Deity? Is it worth getting all 3 in your capital on Immortal losing all the tenets each switch. I guess it isn't worth it but it is nice to see someone did it so fast! Oh and don't you have enough time to hard build the first wonder? Do you find that is was mandatory to bulb all three wonders with a GE?