Strategy on Building Prora, Kremlin & SoL (Deity)

[jko1]

How many tenets do you lose when you switch? If I'm not mistaken you lose one tenet don't you?

 

[phillipwyllie]

So do you think it is possible on Deity?...

Yes if you keep them occupied early on. On this map the AI couldn't play the game for some reason, although it is Immortal.

...Is it worth getting all 3 in your capital on Immortal losing all the tenets each switch....

When I switched to Autocracy nobody had picked an ideology yet so I got 2 tenets from that. When the time came for order at least 2 civs had picked Order(the rest picked Autocracy) so I got none. As I knew I'd be switching I didn't unlock any further tenets after the 2 free ones. Is it worth it? Yes because all you loose is 2 tenets but get them back from the free policy from the wonder(s).

...Do you find that is was mandatory to bulb all three wonders with a GE?...

On this map no I didn't need to GE rush the wonders. Even when William started building the Kremlin he would've taken 14 turns and I was 4 from the vote and my capital was quite strong(although not the strongest for wonder whoring) so I'd have probably beaten him to it. I'd say it's best to GE rush if it's going to be contested. On Deity it probably will be.

 

[consentient]

[deleted by user]

 

[Fluphen Azine]

I'm sorry, but was is the overall purpose of changing ideology twice just to get these three buildings, only one of which has much effect on the VC you are pursuing? Seems to me that the time and effort spent to enact this policy would most likely put victory at risk.

Or is it just for the sake of it? If so, maybe you wanna try my challenge of building all the wonders and then giving the cities away to the civilisations that built them historically? e.g. Building a city, building the Eiffel Tower in it, then gifting it to France.

The main point is can it be done and will it make your Empire stronger? Is it worth it? Most of your games you are trying to wipe out the map in a very fast turn time so this type of strategy will not apply to your games. This is more for a peaceful type of game and I think that having Prora and SoL in your capital is pretty strong if you are not going to suffer any repercussions for getting them. You could even get into the Kremlin but that building doesn't offer near as much of a bonus so 2 out of the 3 is pretty good.

I have never seen anyone even suggest trying this so when I found another player actually implementing this tactic to get 2 of the Wonders I wanted to see if it was worth it. Most of the time in your own personal games you are trying to end it before the modern era so it really doesn't apply for you but for some of us who like to get into the Modern, Atomic, and Info era it could be very useful. If I wanted to I could work on finishing my games faster before the Atomic/Info Era really matter but I enjoy using Xcoms and Stealth Bombers and Nukes and all the other late game toys so I can see myself playing peaceful getting a large tech lead, building Prora and SoL and playing around with Rocket Artillery and Paratroopers having fun crushing my neighbors and hopefully bringing back a Civ to life which is always good for votes if the player likes Diplo VC.

As stated before this strategy is not to get you a faster turn time victory if that is what you are trying to achieve. What it is suggesting is that even on Deity you have other options for your game play opening up the so called tunnel vision that most players think Deity offers when in reality we have many options of how to play and experiment with the game even on Deity.

 

[beetle]

How many tenets do you lose when you switch? If I'm not mistaken you lose one tenet don't you?

You lose two tenants when you switch. Before the halloween patch, you only lost any bonus tenants (so a maximum of two). So this stunt is really only interesting if you can get the second ideology while the two free early adopter policies are still available.

 

[consentient]

[deleted by user]

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Surely that's impossible, though?

If I am right, you can only switch ideology under pressure from another, so if you are being pressured by Autocracy, it means someone already took it. So you will never have any free policies.

In fact, though each Ideology Wonder gives you a free one, this whole strategy trades social policies for underwhelming buildings.

I am guessing someone could figure out how to build all three even on Deity since I seen a player reach Modern Era on something like turn 147 just recently. However I realize that the Kremlin is pretty useless unless you just want to be in Order but I would think if you could build SoL and Prora in your capital it could be very useful in a Deity game. Will it cost you some turn times? Most likely but sometimes I get into late wars nowadays and getting SoL first for the awesome power that it has and Prora after to get all that happy so I can warmonger and keep cities if I wish more easily. A game like Shark Diver plays where he has Petra in his Expo could mean that you could build these wonders in separate cities as well.

If you move from Freedom to Autocracy and only one AI has opened Autocracy you still can get 1 free tenet and if you have a GE you can instantly build Prora beating the AI to both Wonders. You really do not need the GE for SoL since you should be able to hard build it and you might even be able to hard build Eiffel as well just as your about to get Prora. However, I believe that it is possible to get Freedom and switch to Autocracy before the AI has opened it but it would mean that the AI is most likely having an Order Party type of game. So you get two policies for the buildings and one for the switch so I don't think you lose out on any policies if it goes as planned and it could be possible to get two free policies from the wonders and switch and still open your two free tenets. Also I stated that this is most likely not possible on Deity in my OP, but I am pretty sure that you could get 2 every game without a loss to policies or perhaps one policy loss. It has already been shown how to get all three on Immortal and since you get three free policies you do not lose a policy.

 

[consentient]

[deleted by user]

 

[Fluphen Azine]

Not really annoying... this was just an idea and it wasn't meant to be the norm for anyones game. As I have said before it is not for a faster turn time victory. If you are set on clearing the map before Modern Era it does not apply. Building Wonders do not apply. I am thinking this could be good for when I start a very late war waiting for Rocket Artillery. Some games I start to conquer very fast after I get them going and Happy is an issue if I want to just keep all the cities that I take and having Prora is going to help out for the happy problem that might occur. I also enjoy getting Nukes and Xcoms so my game is going very deep into the tree and turn times and it is not going to hurt having 2 of these wonders as I have already said the Kremlin is the worst out of the 3 so I would be going for SoL and Prora sometimes and not every game.

If I was playing a full Honor game I wouldn't even think about this. I would just take the Wonders if the game even lasts that long which my games always do. This is something I am trying to work on with a Full Piety Start and using late warmongering down the road. However, I can see using Liberty or Tradition with this in mind as well. You are kinda just playing devils advocate which is fine. Some people hate the Small Piety Strategy and that strategy doesn't seem to bother you as much as this one but that is ok as well. As I have said before this really wasn't my idea since I read about another player doing this and I started this thread to get some information on how you could get 2 or 3 of the Wonders which I think Phillipwyllie gave a good example on Immortal of one way to do it.