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strategy suggestions

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by jack08642qa, Feb 22, 2016.

  1. jack08642qa

    jack08642qa Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 31, 2014
    Messages:
    2
    Backstory: In this current game, I had a slow start because I was attacked early on in the ancient age by Korea which slowed me down. After building my cities up and staying out of the wars going on, I managed to out research the top civ Sumeria and obtained replaceable parts well before they did. At this point Sumeria already owned half the continent and was starting to take over on the side I was on. Using my infantry which Sumeria had no counter to, I joined in the war with Korea/Arabia/and what was left of India. After a while of fighting I manged to push back Sumeria all the way back to their original core but this was only because England on the other side of the continent who was just slightly closer to Sumeria attacked them and drew most of their forces to that side. Now I have managed to gain peace with all the remaining civs but i fear if I don't do something about Sumeria, they will be unstoppable. Also after I got the peace treaty with Sumeria they were still at war with the 1 lone city of india and had just finished killing England. I soon got to see how scary Sumeria really was when they started sending huge stack after stack after stack of units through my land to reach India. Another thing, just with Sumeria's initial attack towards me, before they got distracted by England, they brought over 50 calvary with them and around 20-30 riflemen. When they went to finish off india after I got a peace treaty them, I counted well over 100 infantry in various stacks getting sent through my land with a lot more on the way.

    Now my question, I was thinking of producing a lot of artillery and fighting a slow war to whittle down their forces then counter attack slowly into their land; Is this a good strategy for the current situation? what would you suggest?

    Another important note, I started my war with the top civ ahead of them in technology and now that civ is ahead of me and starting to run away in the tech race. Me and that civ are the only 2 civs so advanced so I can't just trade techs to catch up

    The game difficulty is Monarch, it is max on ai aggression, accelerated production is on, and domination/conquest are the only victory conditions, and I am also playing as Germany.
     

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  2. justanick

    justanick Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Germany
    In that case an important question is if you can have panzers soon enough. I donnot have the time look at the save right now and may choose to do so later.
     
  3. tjs282

    tjs282 Whale snark...

    Joined:
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    Under the waves, before love rescued me
    I had a look at your save in CivAssist, and you could be in trouble.

    You are indeed falling behind in tech. Although you have SciMethod and built ToE (good), you didn't leverage it very well (bad): the 'classic' tech-choices here are AtomTheory and Electronics, the 2 most expensive techs of the Industrial -- but you didn't take them. If you had, you could have traded those three techs for nearly everything else, while also (pre) building Hoover Dam for yourself, to boost the Factories you're building right now (if you have a suitable Factory-city, it might still be worth starting a Palace-prebuild there, so that you can switch it to Hoovers when you get/buy Electronics). And although you have most of the obligatory Industrial techs, you need 12T to get MotorTrans, and you've put no beakers into it yet. Conversely, Sumeria has MotorTrans already (monopoly, but them knowing it has made it cheaper for you to research!), and Atomic Theory is also known -- and I think I saw that someone (possibly also Gil) has Flight as well. This means that Electronics and/or Espionage are likely being researched by the AIs right now -- and if Gil does have Flight already, then once he gets Electronics, he'll be into the Modern Age. If he then gets Computers (MechInf) as his freebie, then even with Panzers, you're going to have a tough time beating him.

    Of the other unknown techs, the one you need most right now is actually Sanitation! Your cities have all been placed to use 16-20 exclusive-BFC tiles, most of which are already improved -- but none of those cities has a Hospital yet, so you can't even make the most of the territory you already hold. Building cities so loose also means you've been wasting tile-output (and Worker-moves) for the entire game! So you might actually be better off dumping the run at Motors, and try and grab a monop on San (which is still cheaper -- you should be able to get it in 7-8T at SCI%=100). Once it comes in, try and trade it for the other Ind-Age techs you're missing, perhaps topping up the sale using your gold reserve. Your Treasury is doing you no good otherwise, since you can't cash-rush under Communism (and gold can easily be replaced -- if you zero SCI% after you get San, you could rake in >500 GPT!).

    Speaking of which, were you going for SCI% or TAX% in this game? I ask because although you've built Libs+Unis in most cities, you've also built (or are building) Banks+StockExes in them as well (and you're building WallSt in Berlin). Purely commercial improvements only multiply the TAX%-slice of your commerce per turn, so they do you no good at all when SCI%=100, because TAX% is at zero (Markets are fine to build in a science-game though, because they also multiply Lux-happiness). Given that you are already behind in techs, though, it may actually be worth (after Sanitation) just going full-on TAX%=100 for a while, and using gold to buy the remaining Ind-Age techs (and maybe the first couple of Modern techs) from other Civs as soon as you can afford them (all of the other SCI-civs on the map are scheduled for demolition anyway, so you might as well get what you can from them before you kill them). Until then, though, I would convert Bank and StockEx builds-in-progress into Factories, Courthouses or Arty-builds.

    AND YOU HAVEN'T BUILT YOUR FP YET !!! Doing so ASAP will cut corruption/waste everywhere, since you're Commie: Medina would be probably be a good place for it, so switch the Bank build-in-progress to FP. Build Courthouses too -- in all your cities -- better to increase useful SPT/CPT before building multiplier-buildings. You could disband units into CH-builds, and/or whip your citizens, to get the CHs up in 1T (4 Cav-disbands, or 4 citizens whipped, or 2 of each = 80s = 1 CH). As a Commie, you could also do with getting Espionage and building your SPHQ, but that can wait until you've made inroads into Sumeria (or Korea) -- maybe use an MGL for it... However, even if you reduce/ eliminate the ~30% wastage in all your cities (which should be possible -- with only 24 cities, you're still well under the OCN/Nopt for a Huge Monarch map), your shield-output will still be ridiculously low. Apart from Berlin (which already has a Factory), all of your Pop12 cities are making only 10-16SPT, accoridng to CivAssist (and even Berlin is only making 25SPT). Are you sure you have AccProd switched on? (NB CivAssist says AI Aggression is normal, not high -- so I'm not sure how reliable your game description is.)

    Cities stuck at Pop12 only need 24FPT to keep from starving, but you have nearly everything irrigated -- I shudder to imagine how much food you're wasting, that could be turned into shield-output, either by reassigning citizens to low-FPT/high-SPT tiles, or by mining already-railed BGrass and Plains. You already have 17 Workers and 35 Slaves -- at least until you can build Hospitals, they should be stack-mining your railed flatland (not doing solo Jungle-clearing and other similarly useless tasks!). With RepParts, it only takes 3 Workers/6 Slaves to mine flatland in 1T -- so you could be mining 11.5 tiles per turn, just with what you've got now (and if unhappiness becomes a problem in any city, build more Workers/ Slaves out of it, and improve terrain even faster).

    Once you're well on the way to fixing all the above problems, and have got mines built, your Factories will finish faster. Once all your cities have at least a Rax, CH, Market, and Factory, then, yes, start building Arty. Lots of Arty -- at least until you can start building Panzer instead. You might also want to consider building Cavs in high-SPT cities, then disbanding them into construction projects in other towns, to finish those builds faster as well. When you acquire MotorTrans, Mobilising might be sensible, to get your Panzer-numbers up quickly. It's not like you're going to be signing peace any time soon, is it? (But if you really need to end mobilization, signing peace with a weakened civ will do it, and then you can re-DoW and finish them off). And once you get Flight, some Fighters/Flaks might not be a bad idea either, given that Gil is probably already building Bombers as well as Tanks. Once you've mopped up his roving Inf-stacks, you'll probably want Bombers yourself, to demolish/kill his city defenders, and reduce your Panzer-losses when taking his cities.

    Oh, and when the war starts, try and buy in some Allies: the Hitties and the Japs would be my choices, since they're the next biggest/most advanced civs after you and the Sumerians -- that way, Gil will split his forces. And if he also buys in the Koreans and Arabs against you, so much the better -- that will give you a cassus belli to consolidate your end of the continent (and if your trade-rep is still clean and you can buy techs using per-turn payments, DoWs from the Civs who sold you the techs can even save you some GPT...).

    Good luck.
     
  4. justanick

    justanick Chieftain

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    Better not. In Communism distance does not matter, so better build it only regularily. Actually skipping it entirely is almost reasonable. You may need 100+ to notice the effect of the SPHQ in addition to the FP.

    Any MGL must be used to form as many panzer-armies as possible. The panzer-army is the second best unit in the game only topped by the army with modern armour in it. Panzer-armies are really great for warfare. :)

    That would be very expensive and help AI. Better obtain espionage(but sanitation first of course) and build the secret service building. Then use your communist veteran spies to steal techs. It is much cheaper than buying expensive techs.
     
  5. tjs282

    tjs282 Whale snark...

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    Bloomin' 'eck -- you can tell I normally stick with Republic on ≤Standard-size maps. I only ever use the IntelAg as a prebuild, and then only if someone forced Espi on me as part of a trade... Yes of course, stealing the techs makes much more sense than buying them...

    I do have a related question regarding your advice though, Justanick, which has been vagely nagging at me for a long time. You frequently recommend the 'standard' tactic of going to Republic as early as feasible, and then never changing govs until the game is won -- and I think I've also seen you advocating planting cities at tight Cx(x)xC placement, for max-Pop12 Cities. But I've also seen you extol the advantages of Communism fairly fervently, and of aiming to get all cities fully-developed into CxxxxC'd Pop21+ Metros.

    So my question(s) is, (how) do those two apparently opposing viewpoints square with each other, i.e. under what circumstances (Map-size, difficulty, Civ chosen, game-aim, etc.) is it actually worth going though a 2nd Anarchy-period (most likely for 5-9T, by that stage in the game) to switch from Republic into Communism (and presumably also disbanding/ refounding cities accordingly)?

    Or are these actually two separate, non-combinable strategies, to be pursued independently according to game-settings/-aim (e.g. Standard vs Huge maps, Warmongering vs Peaceful)?

    Corollary questions for you personally (feel free to ignore!)
    Spoiler :
    Assuming that you do actually still play Civ3 regularly, as opposed to just pontificating on CFC and CivForum, about how easy it is to beat Deity ;)
    • What starting settings do you routinely use (if any)?
    • What VC do you generally (prefer to) aim for?
    • And the 64,000-dollar question: of all the Deity/Sid games you start, roughly how many (%-wise) do you actually lose?
    To avoid clogging this thread, feel free to PM me, if you like -- unless Jack wants to know too?
     
  6. justanick

    justanick Chieftain

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    I do prefer to utilize communism, but often that switch is not very sensible. One way to look at this is if the amount of time lost in research and (much more important) anarchy can be compensated by communism. That would likely require to need 6+ turns per tech as a republic, so communism has at least a chance of regaining lost ground. If things go well that requires a difficulty setting higher than Deity, else your research without communism(but likely not without police stations) is simply too fast. Also using a commercial civ favours communism. 3 additional base commerce per metropolises may make the difference between 27 base commerce or 30 base commerce per metropolises. The effect on net commerce will be even stronger.

    Another aspect is production. If production is a (highly) relevant consideration this changes the favour strongly towards communism. I have still not gotten to look up the save in this thread, but i very much assume that here switching to communism was a big mistake. Still switching governments again would be insane. Avoid anarchy at almost all cost!

    I donnot recall having put it this way. I aim for fully developed metropolises from the beginning on. In extreme this can mean to disband any city that will result in a net loss of 5 usable tiles because in communism this would like still have a positive effect on net commerce.

    For practical purposes and reasonably shield production it is probably best to aim to use almost all tiles with as few metropolises as possible. Those are your permanant cities, they will get preferential treatment in terms of receiving buildings instead of having to build units etc.. Prior to hospitals some non-permanent cities(Wegwerfstädte) are added so that all tiles can be used at about size 12 in the permanent cities and about size 10 in the non-permanent cities. The non-permanent cities will likely get the ancient buildings as those are relatively cheap. Later those non-permanent cities will be reduced in size, their buildings will be sold and the city will be abondoned. This can happen by building a settler or otherwise, whatever is most convenient.

    Depending on difficulty setting it can be convenient to start abandoning cities before the industrial age as this reduces rank corruption and may increase the average base productivity of used tiles. At emperor and below waiting for railroads and hospital maybe more convenient as rank corruption is much less of a hassle there.
     
  7. Lanzelot

    Lanzelot Moderator Moderator

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    I have taken a look, and it was... The size of the German empire is still so small, that you probably have even less income and production under Communism than you had under Republic! Why on earth did you switch to Communism here? Why did you go through the pain of researching 2 unneeded optional techs and suffering another anarchy period, only to end up in a worse position than you were before the switch?! :confused:

    But as it is, I agree with my predecessors: go for Sanitation, hope that you can trade it later for Espionage and then steal techs from Sumeria, Korea and the Hittites. (They are all three more advanced than you, and probably trading among each other.)
    Meanwhile start an invasion on the Celtic/Zulu continent. They are both still in the middle ages, so with a few ships of Cavalry you should be able to quickly capture their continent. It has some nice lands and quite a few size-12 cities which under Communism will immediately be productive for you. With that extra production you can then probably conquer Korea, and then you should be strong enough to take on Sumeria.

    BTW: I can see, why Sumeria is the run-away Civ in your game: their capital started with two cows and a wheat... (and additionally, the AI usually plays the agricultural civs quite well).

    PS: do me a favor and rename "Heidelburg" to the correct name "Heidelberg"... :D
    (And while we are at it: Konigsberg -> Königsberg, Nuremberg -> Nürnberg, Cologne -> Köln and Munich -> München... ;))
     

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