Strategy Thread (How We're Going to Win)

[Irgy]

If we beeline Astronomy, we'll be not even anywhere close to rifles when we get it.

Compare:
(... Machinery), Optics, Calendar, Astronomy

with:
(... Machinery), Fuedalism, Guilds, Banking, Gunpowder, Civil Service/Theology, Paper, Printing Press, Replacable Parts, Rifling

I'd rather attack with Astronomy and Axemen if that's all we have than wait a long time to get a better military tech. We should have at least Maces though, as we need Machinery anyway and we'll want Civil Service for Beaurocracy. Knights and Muskets aren't that much of a stretch either.

 

[azzaman333]

Why attack at tech parity?

 

[Irgy]

Attack when you can win. If that's tech parity with a large production lead (or even just a large enough lead in already produced military) then that's good enough. As long as you have seige you can win a battle even behind in tech without necessarily making huging losses.

That said, it's very unlikely we'll be at tech parity anyway. All I'm saying is we shouldn't delay the invasion to research ourselves a bigger tech lead, unless we don't think we can win comfortably with what we have.

We should also have most of the land army built before Astronomy, so that we can build nothing but galleons (or whatever our UU is called) once we get Astronomy and be ready to go.

If that's feasable anyway. The huge tech rate of that this game is heading for means we're likely to get to technologies before we're really prepared for them.

 

[1889]

Exactly Irgy but if we have an army big enough to win why wait until we build a massive galleon fleet? It may be overly ambitious to expect our first war to wipe out an opposing team. I’m not sure what their production is but we would have to not only build a more powerful force but also all the galleons necessary to transport that force and the necessary reinforcements. I think a more limited war over territory on the main land would be within our capabilities sooner and may help cement the alliance.

In any case the war plans of the alliance will be settled by consensus. Excuse my ignorance but have the other even been made aware that they are in an alliance as opposed to a tech partnership?

 

[Irgy]

I'm not necessarily suggesting we do wait until Astronomy to go to war. In fact if we decide to sink the exploring units we'll be at war fairly quickly. Controlling all of Bode is a sensible goal before we get to Astronomy.

However, until Astronomy, we can't finish the job. Until we finish the job, we're under constant harassment.

If we dominate the land but not the seas, they can build a bunch of Triremes to pillage our seafood and send our army in circles chasing potential offshore raids. If we dominate the seas but not the land, we still would have a lot of trouble stopping them landing a party of raiding land units in a single turn and running the fleet to safety. To dominate both we'll need to build (and pay upkeep for) a lot of units, and we'll be absolutely itching for Astronomy when we can actually get the spoils.

A tech partnership is effectively an alliance, just without the longer term guarantees. Quatronia and ourselves have a clear mutual interest in ganging up two on one with against Mavericks, and Quatronia are already giving the impression that this is their intention.

 

[azzaman333]

Why I mentioned Rifles was because intercontinental invasions will be very difficult. Catapults/Trebuchets will decimate us (unless we can raze cities).

 

[1889]

A tech partnership is effectively an alliance, just without the longer term guarantees. Quatronia and ourselves have a clear mutual interest in ganging up two on one with against Mavericks, and Quatronia are already giving the impression that this is their intention.

I disagree a bazillion percent. If war breaks out before our allies are firmly on board they will reevaluate where their best interests lay. It may appear that ganging up on Mavericks benefits everyone now, but if the war fails to go according to plan that judgment will be reevaluated. War is a huge drain on an economy; our tech partners may decide it is an opportunity for them to surge ahead. Taking our allies for granted in this way is a potential diplomatic catastrophe.

 

[DaveShack]

Technically what we have right now is an alliance with Amazon only, and a tech partnership that includes Quatronia and CDZ.

We should try to out-rex Mavericks on the spoke between us, so that we enter the future war already having a production advantage. On the Amazon side we should split that spoke evenly and encourage the Amazons to try to out-rex Merlot on their other spoke. Quatronia and CDZ should attempt the same with the spokes on the other side of M&M.

If we can get triremes and maces while Mavs lack them (by being ahead in tech), then we should consider knocking Mavs down a bit even before Astronomy. On the other hand, even a successful war temporarily weakens the winner, so maybe we should aim for the 2nd war?

 

[azzaman333]

I believe Mavs got MC from the Oracle, so they'll definitely have triremes.

 

[1889]

Technically what we have right now is an alliance with Amazon only...

Technically a defensive alliance only though.

 

[pindicator]

If we beeline Astronomy, we'll be not even anywhere close to rifles when we get it.

Compare:
(... Machinery), Optics, Calendar, Astronomy

with:
(... Machinery), Fuedalism, Guilds, Banking, Gunpowder, Civil Service/Theology, Paper, Printing Press, Replacable Parts, Rifling

What about utilizing the tech partnership here and spreading out the research? I'm just hastily throwing this idea together so it may not work exactly like this but what about:

Team A:
Civil Service (800), Paper (600), Printing Press (1600)

Team B:
Feudalism (700), Guilds (1000), Gunpowder (1200)

Team C:
Machinery (700), Calendar (350), Filler - Engineering? (1000), Banking (700)

Team D:
Compass (400), Optics (600), Astronomy (2000)


4 teams putting in roughly 3000 beakers worth of research will get us 2 techs away from rifles. Then we just need to research:

Replaceable Parts (1800), Rifling (2400)

 

[Irgy]

What about utilizing the tech partnership here and spreading out the research? I'm just hastily throwing this idea together so it may not work exactly like this but what about:

Team A:
Civil Service (800), Paper (600), Printing Press (1600)

Team B:
Feudalism (700), Guilds (1000), Gunpowder (1200)

Team C:
Machinery (700), Calendar (350), Filler - Engineering? (1000), Banking (700)

Team D:
Compass (400), Optics (600), Astronomy (2000)


4 teams putting in roughly 3000 beakers worth of research will get us 2 techs away from rifles. Then we just need to research:

Replaceable Parts (1800), Rifling (2400)

Something like that sounds plausible, but do we really want to skip Education and Liberalism?

Even though it's only two techs, Replaceable Parts and Rifling are still an extra 4200 beakers that we can't research in parallel. Comparing that to the 3000 total beakers in each of the groups you've got, even with research rates increasing it's still going to take about twice as long to get to Rifling as Astronomy. Contrast that with my view that we should have most of the land army built before Astronomy.

The reason I'm in such a hurry is that I honestly think we'll be effectively racing against AMAZON and CDZ (and Quatronia to a degree). The team that finishes off their first target the quickest is the one that's going to be the best prepared for the next phase of the game.

If we pump out galleons as soon as we have Astronomy and fill them with an invasion force immediately, while other teams are dithering around waiting for Rifles, we'll have the Mavericks home island to ourselves, while AMAZON and CDZ are still at war getting harassed by Merlot.

 

[azzaman333]

Err, we're really racing Quatronia for Mavericks land, so us and Amazons will be more powerful to take out CDZ and Quatronia.

 

[Irgy]

Err, we're really racing Quatronia for Mavericks land, so us and Amazons will be more powerful to take out CDZ and Quatronia.

Sorry, it was a bit confusing, but I'm really merging two races into one with that description.

Race 1: Between us and Quatronia for Mavericks land. Winning this race has more immediate consequences.
Race 2: Between the left and right hand sides of the map, to finish off their enemy first. So on the left there's ourselves and Quatronia against Mavericks, and on the right there's Amazon and CDZ against Merlot. Whichever of Merlot or Mavericks falls first gives the two corresponding teams an advantage. This advantage may only come into play once it's just ourselves and AMAZON.

But in a way, it's still all one race, to be the first team to take some new land. There's not a lot of land on this map, so it's going to be at a premium. The more we can get the better.