Struggling with Brazil and the new France

[Aaron90495]

Just wanted to get some input on strategies for the two culture powers, as I've really been struggling with both of them. Here's the problem I've run into: if I build chateaus and Brazilwood camps, I don't have enough food and production. Then, if I try to reroute trade routes internally to mediate that, I lose my economy.

It just seems that, for the culture output of chateaus and Brazilwood camps to be significant, you have to build enough to hurt you in other areas, much like the problem that faced pre-BNW Polynesia. What am I doing wrong here? I've been playing small continents, quick/standard speed, standard-sized emperor games, BTW.

 

[Shafi-is-back]

I just finished game on emperor as Brazil. The thing with Brazil is cities with only jungle tiles will have very little production, but food should not be a problem as each jungle tile has +2 food, if you can have a granary and i'm sure there would be a couple of banana tiles in the jungle you can work for growth.

In my game my capital and second city had jungle tiles only in the the third ring, so these cities were pretty normal and then i settled my third and fourth cities right in the middle of jungle with some bananas and fish to help growth. Spammed all the tiles with brazil wood camps. Production in these cities was poor i had to buy most buildings with gold.

Was not a problem as i had at least 200 gold coming in per turn.

I think in BNW - irrespective of whom you play as trade routes are absolutely critical, so make sure you get those trade routes going.

 

[Vatras]

I would think (without having it tried), that Brazil is meant to attack via tourism in the mid- to late game, gaining fast influence over the others using multiple golden ages. I would not attach too much importance to the camps.

 

[Aaron90495]

Thanks for the responses, guys. I haven't gotten around to trying either civ again, but I think these tips should help. Part of the problem, I think, was that I spammed chateaus and camps too hard, and by doing that too early, I crippled my growth, which slowed me down for the rest of the game.

I still think, however, that the chateau will usually be fairly useless; there just don't seem to be enough situations where it'll make a significant impact without crippling other aspects of your cities.

 

[Shafi-is-back]

I would think (without having it tried), that Brazil is meant to attack via tourism in the mid- to late game, gaining fast influence over the others using multiple golden ages. I would not attach too much importance to the camps.

You'd be surprised at how much tourism a couple of cities with about 10 brazilwood camps can generate.

Each brazil wood camp with Universities in the city + sacred path pantheon (donno if i got the name right, the one that gives you +1 culture on dessert tiles) gives you an output of - 2 food, 2 gold, 3 culture and 2 science ... nothing to sneeze at, they are awesome.

 

[Aaron90495]

You'd be surprised at how much tourism a couple of cities with about 10 brazilwood camps can generate.

Each brazil wood camp with Universities in the city + sacred path pantheon (donno if i got the name right, the one that gives you +1 culture on dessert tiles) gives you an output of - 2 food, 2 gold, 3 culture and 2 science ... nothing to sneeze at, they are awesome.

Wow, never realized how good they can be eventually. I guess a possibility is that I just had a crappy roll - simply too much jungle and very few hills or rivers. Internal trade seems to be key here...if you can compensate for the production and food loss, you'll be swimming in culture and tourism late-game.

 

[Tsar NicholasII]

Just finished a France game on King. Make sure that you have the Louvre and a few other tourism wonders in Paris. Also just because your cultural doesn't mean you should ignore the military option. I conquered Assyria with the Musketeers and Byzantium with the Foreign Legions. It ended up saving me as Byzantium had the rest of the wonders I needed and prevented them from generating unhappiness in my cities. I went Tradition, Liberty, Aesthetics, Freedom, Rationalism & Exploration.

 

[godotnut]

I have found that the best starts for Brazil are with a capital with good initial production with jungle nearby for other cities, rather than packed right next to the capital itself. Some jungle near the capital, esp in the outer cultural ring, is OK, but it's better to have some early hammer via production tiles in the first two rings.

I won my first cultural game on turn 310 as Brazil. Chichen Itza is critical obviously, as is the policy that lengthens golden ages. You'll want the Taj Mahal too, and it's best to use your last few artists on golden ages, rather than building great works. It's pretty easy to get several dozen consecutive turn of golden ages for your endgame.

It will be a challenge to figure out the right balance of great works from artists to max out themeing bonuses vs. using them for golden ages at the end. Also, it will take practice to learn how to time your golden ages for maximum effect. I am still learning.

 

[VainoValkea]

It will be a challenge to figure out the right balance of great works from artists to max out themeing bonuses vs. using them for golden ages at the end. Also, it will take practice to learn how to time your golden ages for maximum effect. I am still learning.

This indeed. Also the theming bonuses aren't listed anywhere (in-game) so unless you memorize them, it's a matter of luck really.

 

[EEE_BOY]

I have found that the best starts for Brazil are with a capital with good initial production with jungle nearby for other cities, rather than packed right next to the capital itself. Some jungle near the capital, esp in the outer cultural ring, is OK, but it's better to have some early hammer via production tiles in the first two rings.

I won my first cultural game on turn 310 as Brazil. Chichen Itza is critical obviously, as is the policy that lengthens golden ages. You'll want the Taj Mahal too, and it's best to use your last few artists on golden ages, rather than building great works. It's pretty easy to get several dozen consecutive turn of golden ages for your endgame.

It will be a challenge to figure out the right balance of great works from artists to max out themeing bonuses vs. using them for golden ages at the end. Also, it will take practice to learn how to time your golden ages for maximum effect. I am still learning.

Yes. Chichen Itza is the only wonder I try to get early in the game. So in my immortal continent plus game, I chose Liberty and expand 2 good production cities before NC. Keep growing the 2 small cities and stay happy. Going to Bronze working instead of construction for proper defence. Then a few lux tech before Philosophy.

Then going to civil service, took Drama before other techs if you want to expand another 3 cities to make a total of 6. Otherwise, tech rate to civil service is important at this point, so keep growing capital and build some essential infrastructures and a few archers.for.upgrade later.

After that, go Metal Casting, then Machinery. Assign an engineer in capital for a GE. Then Education, Printing Press. During that time, also work two writer specialists and open Aesthetics. Build one of the Pizza Wonder or Global Theather but rush the other using the GE. Rush Sistine Chapal with another GE from Pizza or if gone going for Uffizi instead.

Timing of GAMW birth era is super important, this is especially true for GA. Plan ahead and get
Two GW in the same era for GT (easy)
Two GA in the same era for SC (medium)
Three GA in the same era for Uffizi (hard but time the social policy that gives free GA)
Three GM in the moden era for Broadway (try to avoid building music guild before modern)

Going Industrialisation first then choose Freedom quickly.
Then going Scientific theory then electricity, use Oxford to bulb into Modern era very quickly.
At this point fill the rest tech tree, then go hotel and airport.

With this build, your defense is solid with archery units. And play diplomacy carefully and bribe AIs to war.

 

[Yzman]

This indeed. Also the theming bonuses aren't listed anywhere (in-game) so unless you memorize them, it's a matter of luck really.

If you go to the cultural window and mouse over the +0 it will tell you how to get the theming bonus.

Unless you meant before you get the wonder, then yes I agree.

 

[Kassiopeia]

Just finished a France game on King. Make sure that you have the Louvre and a few other tourism wonders in Paris. Also just because your cultural doesn't mean you should ignore the military option. I conquered Assyria with the Musketeers and Byzantium with the Foreign Legions. It ended up saving me as Byzantium had the rest of the wonders I needed and prevented them from generating unhappiness in my cities. I went Tradition, Liberty, Aesthetics, Freedom, Rationalism & Exploration.

This is kind of how my France game went as well, though it was on Prince (it was my 2nd game of Civ5 in a year). I set out to win by culture, but as the medieval era progressed I noticed that Russia was beating me to all the wonders and putting out a ludicrous amount of culture. So I beelined straight for musketeers, built a few trebuchets and crossbowmen and went to town on Russia, grabbing Moscow and St. Petersburg from them. Smooth sailing from then on (Louvre is a monster!), though I had to go and crush the rest of Russia in early Information Age because even with the international games my tourism output was just a hair short of overcoming their culture stockpile.

I think I went Tradition->Aesthetics->Rationalism->Exploration and then Order.

My current culture game with the Celts is kind of going the same way in that Brazil popped up very close to me and Rio was in such a juicy spot that I sent my Pictish warriors to grab Rio for city #3 and raze the rest of their cities. Just because you're pushing for culture doesn't mean you can't swing a big stick if it's necessary and you have the tools for it.

 

[Ulthwithian]

In both the case of France and Brazil, their UI generates gold (and, generally, that's not their main purpose). As such, the loss of trade routes by making them internal is to a large degree mitigated.

Also, it may be just my bad luck with Brazil, but I'm fairly sure that they are either biased against a coastal start, or their Jungle bias coupled with the ways Jungles spawn in the game means that they are quite unlikely to get a coastal start. As such, particularly if you play on Pangaea maps, this may make it hard for you to get a coastal city for sea trade routes, and thus the drawback for internal trade routes is further mitigated (as you can't get lucrative sea trade),

 

[Petiscator]

Dude, don't underestimate the Brazilwood Camps. Once you get a Hotel on a jungle-heavy city, your tourism gets nuts in a Carnival. Add an Airport. Add a Visitor's Centre. Boom boom boom.

I went Freedom on my game solely for the +50% policy. Also, Chichen Itza is a must. Partially following another thread's strategy, I went for early Parthenon (not a very good idea, my late victory came because of this) and Chichen Itza. Manage to conquer wonder heavy Persepolis, unfortunately couldn't get a religion - it could have helped me a lot with +25% tourism. All in all, Brazil's UA is much better than it sounds! Start a to get +50% Great AMW. Use one of the GA generated to start a new . Repeat until won. Seriously, it is a civ with a lot of synergy! The Brazilwood aids in money more than it sounds (also, it gets 2 3 3 2 on a with Sacred Path and a University), and with Hotels your culture bonus is highly increased. The International Games does wonders for Brazil - expect for the fact I forgot that I passed that resolution and Poland got 1st place, damn I'm dumb... - and you'll probably be generating more GMWA than you have space for. Capturing cities during golden ages is quite nice to get some Great Works! And then, we have the Pracinhas. I was expecting much more from them. Needed 2140 points for a GA, got around 10 Pracinhas (one cool thing to do: Freedom + Volunteer Army + Upgrade = +20% foreign lands Pracinhas) and still got around 300 points IF so much.

EDIT: Another crazy thing to do: enhanced great WAM generation.

+25% National Epic
+25% Aesthetics Opener
+25% Leaning Tower of Pisa
+25% Garden
+25% Avant Garde - Freedom's tier 1 policy
+33% Arts Funding - World Congress
+50% Carnival!
___________________________________
+208% for GWAM

 

[JSMCAG]

EDIT: Another crazy thing to do: enhanced great WAM generation.

+25% National Epic
+25% Aesthetics Opener
+25% Leaning Tower of Pisa
+25% Garden
+25% Avant Garde - Freedom's tier 1 policy
+33% Arts Funding - World Congress
+50% Carnival!
___________________________________
+208% for GWAM

You forgot +10% Friendship with Sweden!
(heck, throw in a bunch of Swedens and friend them all even! )

 

[Gliese 581]

It's common to all civs with jungle bias that you need to get some production, either sacrifice some jungle to mine hills or have at least one city in a non-jungle area if that's not possible. After that trade routes can take care of any production problems.