Struggling with the Bannor

[EverNoob]

I've been using the Bannor lately, namely Capria. I find I'm really struggling in the early game with the Bannor. Economically they have little going for them early in the game, which makes the road to Fanaticism and Iron Working slow and painful. Just trying to handle the barbarians is an uphill battle, since the Bannor don't have any special combat advantages early on.

Is it because Capria is not a top-tier leader like Flauros? Or is it just me playing wrong?

Any Capria players out there with useful tips?

 

[Senethro]

I think the best Bannor is an Ashen Veil Bannor, but each of the three leaders will have their own take on it. Capria will move easily between Crusade and StW, Decius will have Hasted/Entropy/Enchant Adepts pushing Axeman/Ritualist stacks through enemy territory, and Sabathiel will have his own gimmick. With Charismatic, Apprenticeship, Conquest, FotTitan, Command Post he will produce 8XP Adepts as insta-Mages.

Don't forget to build a Temple of the Order somewhere so that Hero Whats-his-face gets double results from his Recruit spell.

As for Capria specific stuff, I guess the best thing to do would be to pick up the Great Library and Titan on your way to AV, try to grab the Infernal Grimoire and jump to Malevolent designs. Also switch religion a lot and grab as many priestly types as you can. One Confessor and Stonewarden can pump up your troops without risking themselves, while Cultists wreck any city beside a lake.

 

[Emptiness]

I suggest going after RoK or OO.

RoK will give you an economic boost, and allow you get Iron from the Mines of Gal-Dur. Once you do get Fanaticism, this will give you access to Iron Demagogs (via Rally, that is) without the cost of researching Smelting or Iron Working. You'll be able to build Paramanders to tide you over until you can build Demagogs directly, and thanks to Spiritual your Paramanders will start with Mobility I for free.

OO will give you Drowns, which are a relatively cheap upgrade for your experienced Warriors, and which can take the very nice promotion Cannibalize. At Fanaticism you'll be able to upgrade your Drowns to Stygian Guards, which should serve quite well until you can research Iron Working for your Demagogs. Also, you'll be able to build Zealots and upgrade them to Stygian Guards with Medic I and Mobility I.

(Of course, with Capria being Spiritual, any religon focus can work. If you go AV as Senethro suggests, then you can be upgrading Savants to Mages with Medic I, Mobility I, and Potency. Ritualists are just plain awesome, and even better with a Spiritual leader. However, this will draw you away from Fanaticism and Iron Working, which means putting off being able to build Iron Demagogs.)

 

[EverNoob]

Thanks for the tips!

Although I was referring more to beginning of the game difficulties. I usually do try for RoK or OO early. After some careful analysis...turns out my difficulties were just plain bad luck. Two games in a row I had Charadon and the Clan next to me on the Lakes map. Barbs tend to spawn alot on Lakes, plus the fact that the barbs didn't attack my neighbours and all swarmed me didn't help at all. Usually I play defender or aggressive civ so I can handle barb swarming. I guess the Bannor aren't so great on barb-heavy settings.

With that said, someone should start a Bannor strat thread. I searched around for some, but there isn't much out there. And the stuff that's out there is fairly old...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I recommend Advanced Start games, so you can skip the beginning.



I also recommend modding. Making Valor be the Bannor default race is quite useful, and more thematically appropriate than the Guardsman Trait..

 

[Breunor]

I used to find the Bannor quite good, but I'm not sure they are quite so strong with the new AI where the early game is tougher. I think they are the consummate late game power (along with the Sheaim). Capria's advantage is that she can go into and out of crusade easily - with Sabathiel, who has great characteristics, or Decius, who should prepare for the BIG moment.

Sabathiel being charismatic is stronger early. So, yes, the Bannor are pretty weak early and theri 'thing' is a late game mechanism. The crusade clearly is later game and guadsmen don't help early. Remember, though, they can come back froma bad start really well a la Shatner's thread, whcih wasn't even optimal play.

With Capria I usually go for axemen and catapults fairly early, but obviously it depends on the situation.

Sorry I can't be more help.

Best wishes,

Breunor

 

[Ekolite]

I recommend Advanced Start games, so you can skip the beginning.



I also recommend modding. Making Valor be the Bannor default race is quite useful, and more thematically appropriate than the Guardsman Trait..

That's a great idea actually. Can that be done through the excel editor? If so, how?

EDIT: No worries, worked it out for myself.

It seems like it should work pretty well, and will be very synergetic with Sabathiel's Charismatic trait. Throw in his starting experience bonus from civics and wonders and he should become very powerful. That being said, I wonder if it's a little much, after all it is a level 3 spell. It's also a little strange that it completely negates the usefulnes of Law III, which seems like a thematic thing for the Bannor to be aiming to get with their Archmages. Of course, the Bannor aren't particularly well-known for their magic though so maybe it's not such a big problem.

Anyway, I'm happy with anything that makes the Bannor a civ that's actually fun to play.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Yeah, well, I never really considered Valor worthy of being a level 3 spell. Sometimes I move it to Law 1, but more often I leave it as one of 2 Law III spells. Unyielding Order fits much better in Law III than Order/Divine/Channeling III imho. What I give Priors to compensate varies. Most commonly I just moves Pillar of Fire from Chalid to them, but sometimes I write new spells like one for Banishing Demons.

Sometimes I weaken Valor a bit, either reducing the magic resistance or giving it a small chance to wear off. Oh, my version of Enervation (the Entropy III spell also known as Wither; I've always preferred its older name) has the added effect of removing Valor, Courage, and Blessed from its victims.


You are right though, thematically the Bannor aren't big on the use of arcane magic. One reason I tend to remove Guardsman is that it is mostly useful in defending those unthematic units. (I also give Hosts of the Einherjar Guardsman and Valor though, and make Aureales defend first against and target recon units and assassins/shadows/assassin heroes in particular in stacks of stronger units.)

 

[Ekolite]

Can you make new spells using the editor? I know you can change the effects of current ones but I suspect adding new ones would be more complicated.

 

[readercolin]

You can make new spells using the editor if all it requires is some xml work. Some spells require python however, and these would have to be made via a combination between the two

-Colin

 

[Ekolite]

I think even Valor wasn't really enough. The Bannor are perfectl capable of being strong so this doesnt help that much. What they need is something new and different. Something that makes them more interesting.

 

[Ekolite]

Changed Valour to give double the xp from combat, plus the standard 1 extra, and also 10% combat strength. Took away the magic resistance.

On top of this I will probably change Capria to Aggressive, Spiritual, or alternately Decius to Aggressive Organised. (Aggressive synergises with Valour quite nicely).

I haven't tested it yet but I think it should make a good change. Doubling the xp instead of just providing 1 makes Valour much more useful in the early game, where 1 xp per fight doesn't make such an amazing difference. Valour's vanilla effects are well suited to the late game, where you will tend to e fighting 99.99% battles quite a lot ang get very little xp from them.

Also, I've never understood why the Bannor don't have an aggressive leader, they seem to be one of the most aggressive civs in terms of flavour. Good synergy with Valour too.

EDIT: Decided on changing Capria. Decius's change would give him the same traits as Sheelba.