Sub-Saharian stronger cultures of ancient times (i.e. BCE)

[Manco Capac]

Hi folks,
I've grown interested more and more about ancient Africa recently. We all hear about great empires/culture from Middle East, Europe, India, North Africa, etc. but barely about Africa under the Sahara. What attracts my attention right now is not Africa during the Middles Ages, but 100 AD and before.

I have read and heard of:

Nok Culture, a culture without story, but lots of pottery and sculpture right below the Sahara
Axum Empire that started out ~400 BC and was the most powerful true african nation on ancient ages and was closely in contact with Felix Arabia kingdoms.
Macrobian kingdom, a nation without real archeological proof and came to be known only through Herodotus
Punt nation, unlocalized yet.

What else? I can find more. Even though I admit Aksum "empire" is rather not a subsaharan nation just like the Nok Culture, I suppose they had african neighbours, right?

I suppose the lack of knowledge from ancient times Africa boils down to the fact they didn't generate some literacy to be read for future generations .The harsh climate and the lack of contacts (mainland routes in bandlands are harder for communication and knowledge "trickle down" than like, for instance, the Mediterranean Sea) thwarted african people to become "sophisticated" nations...or perhaps better said big nations of city-states at least.

Anyways, yeah, a confusing thread of mine. The question is: do you know some other old nations that prosper in BCE period or simply they were mostly hunter-gatherer with biggest hierarchy as chieftaincy.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well the obvious one would be Ethiopia, since it is mentioned consistently in Greek and Roman sources. In a way it seems to have been also a term used at the time for anything below the Sahara (what of that was known at any rate)

 

[Lord Baal]

Do you want information on cultures or polities? Because we do have a bit of knowledge of different sub-Saharan cultures, such as those the Nguni (proto-Zulus) displaced in South Africa. I don't know if we have any cultural evidence dating back that far though; a tropical climate tends to be death to material objects. Leave a house in the desert for fifty years, then go back and you'll see that nothing's changed. Try that in a jungle. There's a reason people didn't discover most Mayan ruins until the invention of the aeroplane.

There's been depressingly little work done on ancient sub-Saharan polities. We know that they existed, but that's about all. I don't know when Great Zimbabwe was built, but it's the obvious contender. Unfortunately, I only really known of sub-Saharan states from after the period you are discussing, such as Mali, Songhai, Kongo and Ngola.

Presumably there were plenty of Sub-Saharan polities we never have and never will know about, for many reasons, but yes, the lack of a literary history in much of Africa is among them. Still, Kongo kept written records and no one has bothered to investigate them to any significant extent, so even if the literary records existed, Africa may not have been investigated enough to make a difference in our knowledge. It's simply not as well-known as Eurasian, Mediterranean and Meso-American cultures, so it doesn't attract the same interest.

Africa also has a tendency to kill anyone who travels there with anything less than a UN peace-keeping force these days, so sadly, during the one period of history when such research might be possible, local conditions are preventing it.

Also, Herodotus tended to be pretty full of it. Just because he says something existed doesn't mean it really did. Also, wasn't Punt in Somalia/ Ethiopia? You're also leaving out Kush, which was Saharan, though not Sub-Saharan.

 

[Atticus]

I've read that Punt was in the horn of Africa, i.e. Somalia.

 

[Tee Kay]

There's Kush and Garamantes, or are they too far north.

There's also Jenne-Jeno, which is near where Djenne, Mali, is today. It's quite ancient, going back to before the time of Christ, if estimates are correct.

You could also look into the coastal trading settlements mentioned in classical sources as well; Rhapta, Opone, Sarapion, etc.

The Kush-Axum area is the probably the most interesting region, with relatively ample information from classical sources as well as local records and traditions and lots of physical evidence.

 

[TheLastOne36]

The Garamantes are pretty cool, we are just discovering about their culture and civilization.

 

[Lord Baal]

I have to admit, I've not heard of Garamantes or Jenne-Jeno. I know that there were a lot of trading settlements around modern-day Tanzania, probably because of Zanzibar.

 

[Manco Capac]

I've read that Punt was in the horn of Africa, i.e. Somalia.

It seems so. Just realized Somalia is also called Puntland, but officiously, the land of Punt is still debated. I've read more about it; most pharaohs talked big abot great trades with Punt people like Myrrh. It has even a mention of one and only known king called Parehu (and supposedly, the fact there is a consonant "p" was a hint Punt couldn't be in felix arabia because there is no such "p" consonant).

There's also Jenne-Jeno

Yes, that city is dated as far as 300 BC. It is indeed an ancient time city. Probably, it was more of a city-state than belonging to a widespread nation at that time.

Well the obvious one would be Ethiopia

Ethiopia is the kingdom of Axum (Aksum) I mentioned.

Do you want information on cultures or polities?

I am fairly interested in most information about subsaharian civilizations/tribes. Of course, my starting method rather inefficient as it is not a clear cut operation to divide culture just like we could with egypt, indus civilization, greeks, romans, etc. Probably, the african people during the BCE years were mainly tribes without extended organization and tagging those are called the Nok, Nubians, etc. was a wrong approach, especially with the sheer lack of writings.

Leave a house in the desert for fifty years, then go back and you'll see that nothing's changed. Try that in a jungle. There's a reason people didn't discover most Mayan ruins until the invention of the aeroplane.

Really good point.

You're also leaving out Kush, which was Saharan, though not Sub-Saharan.

I left out Egypt, Nubia, Kush kingdom and kingdom of Axum because it is fairly easy to gather information about them in the sense of recent discoveries.

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I just found a great starting point, although focusing a lot on the already known civs like Egypt, to know about subsaharian nations. UNESCO shares a serie of books for FREE. A shame I don't have a tablet computer. Would be easier to read before sleep than a laptop...

Here's the link. In a freaking 800 pages book, it must have some info, right?

 

[Manco Capac]

Oooh, can't wait to read chapter 21!

 

[Tee Kay]

I UNESCO

 

[Dachs]

That series would've been a lot more awesome if they'd let me know they were going to publish it on the Internet a few months after I broke down and bought one of the Central Asia hard copy volumes.

 

[Lord Baal]

That series would've been a lot more awesome if they'd let me know they were going to publish it on the Internet a few months after I broke down and bought one of the Central Asia hard copy volumes.

UNESCO clearly has some issues with you, Dachs. This is why I don't buy things. Also, I'm poor, bt mostly it's irrationally holdingout for a bargain that never comes.

 

[innonimatu]

This "bargain" came, and it is a bargain indeed! Thanks, Tachywaxon. I had some of the books books but it's better to have a searchable pdf also.

Too bad they seem to be selective still about the languages they make each volume available. Can't wait for all the volumes to be available.