Suggestion: Avatars as playing unit

[Shog-goth]

I'd like to be able to use playable avatars (like Hyborem) for all civilizations from beginning.

If these avatars dies (like Civ3) the game is lost, so you have to take care of and don't risk them. Maybe they shouldn't be too strong at start to avoid unbalance.

What do you think?

 

[xienwolf]

Hero units are meant to fill this role. They just come later on instead of having to scale power somehow all game

 

[MagisterCultuum]

A regicide option could be quite fun (so long as it is strictly optional, of course)

To be thematically appropriate, it would be nice for these to be unbuilable hero units with special abilities. Of course, that might require some not be availible from the beginning, or some serious scaling of their strength/abilities.

I'm not really sure how heroes fill this role, since you don't lose the game for losing them (unless you are playing as the Infernal or Mercurians, there really isn't that much of a penalty for losing them, especially if you build the shrine of the champion and then cast ressurection)

 

[it-ogo]

Avatars may be immobile magic immune immortal units stationed in the capital and able to cast world spells. The idea that each unit have world spell enabled in its menu has essential minuses.

Again avatars can be not immortal but start rather weak and gain power and variating with advances of civ (discovered techs, mana). May be also religious avatars in holy cities. So even religious world spells can be introduced.

 

[Farmer Bobathan]

well scaling shouldn't be hard, different techs could allow the avatar unit to upgrade (like archer to longbowman) to a stronger avatar unit. I could implement this myself in my game in all XML.

 

[Shog-goth]

I'm not really sure how heroes fill this role, since you don't lose the game for losing them (unless you are playing as the Infernal or Mercurians, there really isn't that much of a penalty for losing them, especially if you build the shrine of the champion and then cast ressurection)

I agree.

Again avatars can be not immortal but start rather weak and gain power and variating with advances of civ (discovered techs, mana). May be also religious avatars in holy cities. So even religious world spells can be introduced.

well scaling shouldn't be hard, different techs could allow the avatar unit to upgrade (like archer to longbowman) to a stronger avatar unit.

Good ideas...

 

[BeefontheBone]

The C3C scenario set in feual Japan had that mechanic - regicide with upgradeable king units depending on technology. It was pretty effective, too.

 

[Kjaaly]

The C3C scenario set in feual Japan had that mechanic - regicide with upgradeable king units depending on technology. It was pretty effective, too.

I fully agree, I loved that scenario, even though I was a was a bit of a newbie at the time. (Now my civ3 doesn't work )
Oh, and you really ought to be able to use the Caswallawn when playing as the Amurites, even if this idea doesn't make it into the mod. I mean, the Caswallawn is supposed to be the best mage in the nation with some (Most) of the worlds best mages.

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

What kind of units would each leader be? I would prefer them to only upgrade up one or two paths. Here's some of the leaders and their path's. Unit types that come later in the game (Arcane & Divine) leaders would start off as warrior like units.

Amelanchier- Archery or Recon
Thessa- Arcane or Divine
Faeryl Viconia- Recon or Arcane
Capria- Melee or Divine
Falamar- Melee or Naval
Rhoanna- Mounted or Melee
etc.

Thus players would have to choose their avatar's path early in the game. When a player looses their avatar they could (1) lose the game, (2) Lose traits, or (3) Have widespread anarchy and unrest for many turns. A new recon unit could be made that targets avatars, and can work spells on them to weaken them, poison them, etc.

Avatars should boost cities when they are in the city. Each leader would have a unique effect. e.g. Hannah the Irin increases the aproduction of ships in the city, Kandros Fir increases the gold output. All leaders would reduce the matience in that city by 75%.

 

[it-ogo]

Avatars should boost cities when they are in the city. Each leader would have a unique effect. e.g. Hannah the Irin increases the aproduction of ships in the city, Kandros Fir increases the gold output. All leaders would reduce the matience in that city by 75%.

You know, they look more like properties of civ i.e. palace, not leader. So, avatar is a mixture of palace and hero.

I prefer to have them immortal, str 0, immobile (attached to palace). Just an interface of the civ overall.

 

[Farmer Bobathan]

Building on Rex rgis of Ter's idea maybe the leaders that don't fit one type could blend two together. Or even better they could be a new unit type altogether (leader). If the ideas in this thread were implemented it would add more gravity to your choice of leader (which i would like).

 

[Grey Fox]

I actually had this idea, but you wouldn't lose if you lost your leader, you would lose your traits, just like with Basium and Hyborem.

I also had the idea that civs with multiple leaders could switch active leader (with maybe a anarchy period and a period where you can't change again), with some balance for civs with only one leader.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I think it would be cooler if there were 2 regicide options, one costing you your traits and the other costing you the game.

 

[Roghar]

I like the regicide idea Its very much a capture the enemy flag rather than wear him down and destroy everything which should promote a wider range of strategies, and ability to return from a weak position

My only criticism of civ in general, including ffh2, is that the end game is so often long and drawn out, and the game ceases to be fun a long way before the end. Having a winning condition that eliminates players by taking out one unit is a golden idea.

What would happen to a player's cities and units when a player is ousted? Given to the killer, made barbarian or just deleted? I'm thinking making the civ an AI controlled vassal of the victor could work well.

In terms of the rex himself, it would be interesting if in his development there was a trade-off between being tougher to kill and being more powerful. Someone wanting to prioritise his survival could over time increase his defence, make him invisible, give him fast movement, escape, etc. Alternately you could promote him to be an effective aggressive unit, to give a boost to culture, science, reduce maintenance costs, etc.

 

[Grey Fox]

What would happen to a player's cities and units when a player is ousted? Given to the killer, made barbarian or just deleted? I'm thinking making the civ an AI controlled vassal of the victor could work well.

If there was a regicide option it would be sweet if they automatically capitulated to you. This would be better than getting all of their cities (you might not want them), and better than razing them all.

 

[it-ogo]

My only criticism of civ in general, including ffh2, is that the end game is so often long and drawn out, and the game ceases to be fun a long way before the end. Having a winning condition that eliminates players by taking out one unit is a golden idea.

It is an idea for scenario, not for strategy game overall I think.

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i want to implement the exact same thing for the WH mod (as a game option like barbarian world) where each civ has set traits, and the leaders are distinguished through their avatars. ie a Perpentach avetar would have different abilities and skills to a keelyn avatar, or a Thessa avatar. they should be upgradable and incree in power and skills as the game progresses. (like Roghar said)

additionally these units could cause civil unrest in their civ when they die, and have a chance that the sections of the civ revolt and become barbarian (if the player did a good job, ie the people liked him/her) or vassalised themselves with the victor (if the player did a bad job, ie the people hated him/her) or both.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I will so play the dark elves.

 

[julko]

I had allready implemented Avatars of some sort in my map(search for thread named "Map where Evil rules"). Each civ start with unit with hero promo, unit type differ according to Leaders(Bannor starts with Angel with hero promo, etc.). Maybe you should try it.

 

[mtagge]

I'd like to be able to use playable avatars (like Hyborem) for all civilizations from beginning.

If these avatars dies (like Civ3) the game is lost, so you have to take care of and don't risk them. Maybe they shouldn't be too strong at start to avoid unbalance.

What do you think?

Excellent idea, plus anything to get rid of the world spell from every unit would be a benny. Even if they didn't do anything but remove the spell they would be worth it.