Suggestion for Nukes

[Arkaynnus]

yunno how if you use nukes on an AI Civ, sometimes (MOST times) the other Civs will automatically declare war on you. well how do they know YOU fired the nuke and where it hit??

the problem i have is the YOU, the player, don't know who fired a nuke or where it impacts, unless it's directed at you -- then of course you get a message window that says who fired it and where it hit.

my suggestion is that there should be a window that alerts the player anytime nukes are fired. this way you have the same info that the AI has, and it's fair. it'll also help 'cuz if an AI Civ nukes a Civ's city that you're at war with, you don't accidently nuke it again yourself. i did this in my current game -- the Egyptians nuked Carthage and i seized the opportunity to invade (i wuz already planning to soon anyway) so i attacked, but i accidentally nuked the same city and wasted a perfectly good nuke.

 

[vossibeer]

It's the same behavior with razed citys. Every AI has knowledge of my past misdoings if i cannot dominate my continent before navigation. They know from every razed city , starting from the first one. The human player has no knowledge of past ai-crimes, and i wish i could make an angry face to them as well as they do to me.

Even if i had peaceful ancient times, the ai will attack me anyway, they go green with envy because of my powerlead from up the industrial age. By the way, i play on emperor, huge maps. Did this thousands times, and if i don't get a starting location within deep jungles, there's is no way the ai can stop me. If there is a strong ai-civ, i warmonger until I'm the strongest.

Peace or war, honor or dishonor, anyway, they attack always me. So, i gave peacekeeping up. It's useless on higher levels. I remember, even on regent i did'nt had peaceful games, always war with every ai.

Personally, i would extend your wish. I wan't to see, WHY my reputation is bad and why their attitudes are furious. I want to see all the crimes of my opponents (an even my crimes, too) in a huge, nitpicking list, and nearby the reputation/attitude damage . I wish, trades should be affected by this, so a trustworthy civ should get a tech for 20% more than it's costs, but a really bad foe should pay 50% and more for this within a gpt-deal.

Hm, we talked about nukes, did'nt we? I always build lots of them, but never used them. It's stupid, and i am angry with Sid Meier from the first civ game that it's possible to play atomic war within a game. The effect is always belittled. Imagine, there would only 10 of those things launched in real life, you can be sure this affects millions of people, if not all of us. Remember, that some months after the meltdown of tschernobyl agricultural products from western europe were shunned, and western europe is far away from tschernobyl. And this was only one little reactor.
That's the reason i don't use them, even if it's only a game. Sure, i know, most of the other players have another opinion, so don't flame me, i understand your opinion, too.

 

[Arkaynnus]

the nuclear fallout is reflected by the polution they leave behind. granted, realistically the area would be irradiated for decades and the land inhospitable, but since its a game and nukes are used to liberally, you can't demand realism in Civ3 in this respect.

personally, i think nukes should leave a special kind of "nuclear fallout" polution, which would be green instead of orangish-brown. it would also be much harder to clean up, taking at least twice as long as regular polution.

i agree that a "gripe" list would be great so you can see what the AI Civs have done in the past. the AI has a huge advantage in this respect because they know every little thing you've done in the past and will hold it against you forever, whereas you are only aware what AI Civs do directly to you, and of course you can forget. also, the Diplomatic Advisor is very vague sometimes, and doesn't even tell you if a Civ has used nukes at all.

 

[Qpdaj]

The advisors are vague *sometimes*??? Oh wait, sometimes they aren't vague, but then they're *wrong*...

Gotta love 'em.

 

[Goober]

Hey, I like this Idea. that could tell you when an AI is seeking an alliance because they just nuked someone NOT to accept it, or be dragged into war. I really like this . . .

 

[DreadCthulhu]

Originally posted by Arkaynnus
the nuclear fallout is reflected by the polution they leave behind. granted, realistically the area would be irradiated for decades and the land inhospitable, but since its a game and nukes are used to liberally, you can't demand realism in Civ3 in this respect.

I think you are overstating how long it takes to clean up an area that has been nuked - both Nagasaki and Hiroshima didn't take decades to clean up, and had large populations again in a matter of years.

 

[Arkaynnus]

the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs weren't very powerful compared to the average nuke today, so the amount of radioactive fallot they unleashed wuz relatively low. i believe a single MIRV from a SLBM or ICBM is equivalent to the Hiroshima bomb, and each of missile carries at least a half dozen warheads. therefore, modern nukes would leave environmental damage for a long time.

in my current game, there's been nuclear wars raging for over two centuries. to facilitate my conquest of the Americans, i nuked all their cities (sometimes multiple times) so i could just roll in my tanks and capture them. since then, my workers have spent nearly 200 years cleaning up the mess.

~20 cities x ~20 nukes x 8 pollution squares each (divided by) ~30 Workers/Slaves = a helluvalot to clean up!

 

[Sleepy Eyes]

I wish modern nuke explosions were more powerful like the planet buster on Alpha Centuri...

 

[Warlord Sam]

I agree, it is VERY annoying for the AI to know what happened on a continent that I have all to myself, thousands of years ago, and hold it against me.

Likewise, I think that nuclear weapons *are* trivialized. I think that a certain number of nukes used (depending on map size) should cause intense global warming moreso than currently, and I think that the "pollution" caused by a nuke should be considered irradiated for 10 turns or something, so that units are damaged if they end the turn there, and workers cannot clean it up.

Then again, I also think they should take liberties with a future age, with future techs and whatnot.

 

[Civslayer4sure]

Peace or war, honor or dishonor, anyway, they attack always me. So, i gave peacekeeping up. It's useless on higher levels. I remember, even on regent i did'nt had peaceful games, always war with every ai.

Personally, i would extend your wish. I wan't to see, WHY my reputation is bad and why their attitudes are furious. I want to see all the crimes of my opponents (an even my crimes, too) in a huge, nitpicking list, and nearby the reputation/attitude damage . I wish, trades should be affected by this, so a trustworthy civ should get a tech for 20% more than it's costs, but a really bad foe should pay 50% and more for this within a gpt-deal

I agree absofrigginlutely on all points. They always war with me no matter what size I am. And somebody PLEASE gimme a list of what the heck people are furious about. My man tells me such and such is a liar and cheat and everyone knows it. Lied about what? cheated who? somebody fill me in.

 

[Cobra Commander]

Peace or war, honor or dishonor, anyway, they attack always me. So, i gave peacekeeping up. It's useless on higher levels. I remember, even on regent i did'nt had peaceful games, always war with every ai.

Personally, i would extend your wish. I wan't to see, WHY my reputation is bad and why their attitudes are furious. I want to see all the crimes of my opponents (an even my crimes, too) in a huge, nitpicking list, and nearby the reputation/attitude damage . I wish, trades should be affected by this, so a trustworthy civ should get a tech for 20% more than it's costs, but a really bad foe should pay 50% and more for this within a gpt-deal

Actually remaining peaceful is pretty easy on the higher levels. Just be in some sort of trade with em, and don't let those trade routes get cut. Since at higher levels you're not usually the 'big power' until very late in the game, they don't attack you out of envy either. If you have a weak military, aggressive AI's will pick on you. So trade and keep a decent military and you're fine.

I've played an entire game on diety withour a single war... kinda boring, but it can be done.

The list of reputation hits would be very handy, since it's hard to tell what exactly pisses em off, and how much. Being aggressive and declaring war usually hits your rep pretty hard. Also breaking trade deals (by lose of route, declaring war etc etc) But a more precise analysis would be handy.

Rep DOES affect your trade ability. If you have a bad rep, they will refuse any gpt or resource/luxury deals.

I agree a more graduated system would be nice though.

 

[Vietcong]

i think u shold only take a rep it, its soo stupid for the ai to dw u for that, only in a full sceal nuclear asult, and fist strike shold the ai ever realy declear war on u (if even then) but if its in desens, say u got a few citys left, and thay have a larg mass of units, nuke them, the ai shold be able to tell that it was defensively used, and shold take lil rep hit (expesclay if ur not the agresser)

 

[vossibeer]

Originally posted by Cobra Commander


Actually remaining peaceful is pretty easy on the higher levels. Just be in some sort of trade with em, and don't let those trade routes get cut.

Great Idea. You know, you need something to trade to do that? And , of course, before somebody is at war with you.
Assume, the only other civ on your continent are germans or mongols. Peacekeeping? You make me laugh, usually i get attacked by them around 2000 BC. At this time, i'm happy, if i own 4 cities.
Sorry, even tech buy from them does'nt help always, you should correct your statement to "with much luck is it possible, to survive ancient times peaceful", on emperor i usually can manage it (but not always, usually i can prevent 2 ai's from attacking with tech-buy, but i have not enough money to buy a tech from every ai of the continent).


I've played an entire game on diety withour a single war... kinda boring, but it can be done.
[/QUOTE]

Sure, need a lot of luck. Even if you are doing everything fine to the ai like bamspeedy or ision would do, this does not necessarely keep their military at home.


Rep DOES affect your trade ability. If you have a bad rep, they will refuse any gpt or resource/luxury deals.
[/QUOTE]

I never had a situation, where a luxury/resource deal were refused, of course they refuse GPT against a constant value like cash or tech. I still can buy salpeter with GPT. And even sell, too. Regardless of my reputation. The ai is stupid this way.

I must state: Even if i try peacekeeeping, usually i'll get attacked by every ai, regardless what i do. There might be exceptions like your peaceful deity game above. You should note, it's really annoying that such games as yours are exceptions. There is no algorithm to avoid a war, having war with every ai is the usual way, and that's the stupid thing, very annoying.