Suggestions: Mithril and tech cost

[Yorgos]

I have a couple of proposals for future updates:

1. Mithril
I noticed that there are very few units that can't be built without access to mithril; most of them require either iron or mithril (or even copper as well). Thus mithril's importance is greatly reduced. What about giving a bonus to units built with mithril instead of iron/copper? Like a "Mithril Weapons" promotion, giving something like +20% combat.

2. Balancing technology cost
Tech cost comes in groups with great difference between them, for example there may be one group with 480 cost, another with 960 etc. While it seems OK at first, it's problematic when trading advantages with other civilisations (players who trade a lot will understand what I mean). Small variations to their cost, like in the original game, will make trading more dynamic.

 

[TheBoatman]

2. Balancing technology cost
Tech cost comes in groups with great difference between them, for example there may be one group with 480 cost, another with 960 etc. While it seems OK at first, it's problematic when trading advantages with other civilisations (players who trade a lot will understand what I mean). Small variations to their cost, like in the original game, will make trading more dynamic.

That's true, next level tech cost is doubled. But you often have a choice to trade e.g. 3200+800 techs for one 3200 tech. AI will usually accept the "equal" deal if you add a bit gold. Fair trade won't happen unless you are very friendly with AI or the tech you are trading is interesting (strategic/religious) for the AI. Each civ prefers another civ branch.

 

[Grey Fox]

I agree. With both points, although its hard to balance how much something should cost exactly compared to all other costs of similar value.

 

[loki1232]

Shouldn't this stuff be in the balance recommendations thread?

 

[Yorgos]

Actually I'm suggesting two different things, one for balance and one for expansion (and I don't see any point in making two threads). In fact I believe my idea of "upgrating" mithril is more interesting than the balance suggestion. What do you think about it?

 

[loki1232]

I see your point. What if when you have mithril, the armory gives a free mitril weapons to all units built in that city?

 

[eerr]

how about mithril gives +25% production of iron requiring units, and +50% for copper requiring units?

 

[QES]

I see your point. What if when you have mithril, the armory gives a free mitril weapons to all units built in that city?

You know with the spells like life spark and stone skin. Couldnt mithril armor and mithril weapons function as a minro version of each?

Mithril Armor would provide a 1 combat round immunity (unlike stone skins 3)
and mithril weapons would provide the penetration to that? Or something offensively equivilant?
-Qes

 

[Yorgos]

You have some really good ideas folks! Much better than my original proposal. Personally I'd prefer something which makes mithril units a little stronger, perhaps a free promotion in every city with access to mithril and a specific required building (armory? forge? something new?)

Edit: 200th post... and it took me no less than one and a half year to make it!

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

I think that the importance of mithril was greatly reduced by making it a ressource of the dragons hoard. In single player games it will always be the player who kills the dragon and so their never is any reason for mithril wars in the late game (I had some of those in earlier versions )

I will also post this in the balance recomendations thread...

 

[loki1232]

I don't like things that make it necessary to have a complex understandingof the combat system. It makes it harder for new players that want to try FfH.

Okay--
Mithril + weapon smith gives mithril weapons
Mithril + armorer gives mithril armor
Mirthil armor: immune to first strikes,+10% strength
Mithril weapons: +1 first strikees,+10% strength

 

[Frozen-Vomit]

I don't like things that make it necessary to have a complex understandingof the combat system. It makes it harder for new players that want to try FfH.

Okay--
Mithril + weapon smith gives mithril weapons
Mithril + armorer gives mithril armor
Mirthil armor: immune to first strikes,+10% strength
Mithril weapons: +1 first strikees,+10% strength

Simple but cool - I like it

 

[jafink]

Great idea Loki

 

[eerr]

Mithril + armorer gives mithril armor
Mirthil armor: immune to first strikes,+10% strength

why would i ever bother giving my archers drill potions again?
they'll just become useless in t4, when they should be my best defence
mithril armour-absorbs 1 hit (before stoneskin) +10% strength
meybe?

 

[loki1232]

Okay, i agree with you.

Forts:
Can we make it so that forts can be bombarded by catapults to reduce their defense?

 

[QES]

I think that the importance of mithril was greatly reduced by making it a ressource of the dragons hoard. In single player games it will always be the player who kills the dragon and so their never is any reason for mithril wars in the late game (I had some of those in earlier versions )

I will also post this in the balance recomendations thread...

Agreed, my idea is to keep the Horde having mithril, but make it harder to get.

What if ol archeon has babys? Every 50 turns or so Archeon has a 5 or 10% chance of spawning a "wyrmling" Wyrmlings can run around the barbarin territory trying to eat peoples faces. If it does so successfully it should get older and bigger and more powerful, eventually becoming a lesser version (but not by much) of archeon himself. In this, that barbarian town that holds the horde becomes increasingly lethal to try to get. If no one goes after the dragon horde early - by late game there could be archeon and 4 or 5 red dragons circling the area. To get the horde, you'd have to invest quite a bit of effort (and mortal fodder) to acheive that end.
-Qes

EDIT: Or t4 units could simply require mithril and NOT iron. Iron should be relegated as copper is in comparison. Perhaps?

 

[Sureshot]

It might be neat to use the system all around. Like if you have copper all your units built with access to copper get a Copper Weapons promotion that gives +5% strength whatnot. If you have iron that promotion gets replaced with a +10% strength promotion whatnot, and if you have mithril you get a +15% promotion whatnot. Then your warriors newly created would be better than a civ without such things and having the best metals would yield the best troops..

 

[loki1232]

It might be neat to use the system all around. Like if you have copper all your units built with access to copper get a Copper Weapons promotion that gives +5% strength whatnot. If you have iron that promotion gets replaced with a +10% strength promotion whatnot, and if you have mithril you get a +15% promotion whatnot. Then your warriors newly created would be better than a civ without such things and having the best metals would yield the best troops..

I don't really like this idea, because the current system works nicely, and this seems like extra pain and little gain.

I truthfully think the current mithril system is good i'd just change it slightly--
(ignore my earlier post)
Knights, immortals, and shieldwalls absoloutly require mithril. Sparatori and berserkers can be built with mithril or iron.

This way 3 of the best units in the game need mithril, but you can still get good t4 units without mithril.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

Isn't it the mithril weapons tech that allows Sparatori?

 

[QES]

Isn't it the mithril weapons tech that allows Sparatori?

GAH! Spartaiatoi Spartaiatoi!

Sparta (like the city) iatoi the specific warrior ruling class of the city.
Spartaiatoi was my suggestion all that time ago. PLEASE let us use it correctly.
-Qes