Suprise spearman

[Swiss Bezerker]

There is one thing Im getting very PO in my games

Computers often magicaly have this unfortified spearman(or other defensive unit) put into their citie when they need it most.It get me mad when the computers warrior beets my horseman which I positioned there because my citie hadnt build a spearman.and then the next turn when I sent a horseman into attack they magicaly get this spearman.what did they do? airlift it?Does any 1 know why they do this or can share any expiriances?

 

[killercane]

Ah the magic spearman. It usually appears due to whipping in the city or on higher levels those GD build bonuses the AI gets allows them to build one turn spears. However sometimes when you declare war with a two move unit (say a jag warrior) and then move in for a kill, the AI somehow gets an interturn whip in to get another defender. This one very much confuses me. It almost always happens to me on tiny sid. I set up w/ two jags and if I declare before I move in theres a spear and a warrior defending rather than only a warrior defending. If i just move in and attack, I have only the warrior to worry about. Does anyone have an explanation for this? You can gift the AI a new government and put them in anarchy pre-attack and they wont be able to whip anything, if you want to go that route.

 

[Tomoyo]

Isn't it because whenever the AI builds a city they get a free spear? I think it's worked into the bonuses.

 

[SJ Frank]

Yep, IIRC, on Emperor plus, AI's get a free defender when they found a city.

 

[Swiss Bezerker]

I play monarch and the spearmen will apear when I march my troops into their territory.

 

[vmxa]

I never heard of a free spear for founding a city. Run a test using debug and see. I have done that, but it has been over year. I do not recall seeing that on even sid.

Whipping is the most probable way to get units and drafting, if they have Nat. BTW do you have your preference set to show units over cities? If not you do not see any units at a distance.

 

[vmxa]

Ok, I just ran one on demi and no free units with founding on additional cities. The free units come only with founding the first city. Well actually, I know they can get all new free units, if they are eliminated and respawn and then found.

 

[Nooble]

Well, the computer always goes first then us. So it makes sense. They can build a spearmen befor our next turn.

 

[Swiss Bezerker]

Then why isnt it fortified.Also ive seen this happen on regent, where they get no free units

 

[Brain]

It's because the AI always tries to rush defensive units whenever it's under attack. You can use the anarchy strategy mentioned by killercane, or just keep in mind that the AI will always rush or draft whenever it can.

 

[killercane]

Heres the situation in a .sav file so you can watch the AI trickery. Play it once not declaring and just moving in to attack. Guimeres stays size 2. Then play it again, and declare before going in to attack. Guimeres or whatever is now size one with an extra defender (edit: coming in next turn). Prince Henry must have used the Contra code for xtra lives...

 

[Swiss Bezerker]

Exactly.The AI is cheating in some other way then the ones listed for each difficulty.The thing about it is, it doesnt even make sense.How can a defencive unit just sudenly appear in their citie.I'm guessing airlift

 

[Brain]

It's not cheating. We keep telling you that it's rushing the unit. You can do the same in your own cities by using the rush button.

 

[Yuri2356]

It's cheating in the sense that they're being allowed to rush-build during your turn.

 

[bingen]

Heres the situation in a .sav file so you can watch the AI trickery. Play it once not declaring and just moving in to attack. Guimeres stays size 2. Then play it again, and declare before going in to attack. Guimeres or whatever is now size one with an extra defender. Prince Henry must have used the Contra code for xtra lives...

They get a very minor "cheat" in that they whip their city when it is not their turn. This fills their production box (spearman is 8 shields on deity) but DOES NOT GIVE THEM ANY EXTRA UNITS.

I have included pictures before and after declaring war.

 

[killercane]

Right I completely agree, I wasnt clear with my Contra comment; I realize that the spearman is whipped, hence going from size 2 to 1. He doesnt quite "magically" appear, but it is the instantaneous interturn whipping and actually PRODUCING the unit next turn that confuses the hell out of me and others. Its no minor advantage/cheat when you have 2-3 jags vs. 1 warrior or spear at 3000 BC (likely win, setting up acquiring more cities/techs for peace) as compared to 2 jags vs. two spears (pretty much signing your death warrant, 24 AI warriors are about to converge on your capital). We're talking about the future of your glorious civilization here! Maybe thats not the best example in the world, but the key is that they can more quickly get defenders to the front via their whipping than you can.

 

[nullspace]

It's not really a cheat, it's just the order of turns. Every round, the player goes first, then all the AIs, then things are built at the end of the turn. So in your situation:

1) You move next to the AI city on your turn.
2) On the AI's turn, they rush a spearman.
3) At the end of the turn the spearman is built.
4) On your next turn, there is an unfortified spearman in the city.

So, no cheating at all. If you don't declare war, the AI doesn't know you're a threat so they don't rush the spearman. You could argue that the AIs get an advantage from going later in the turn order, but going first has its advantages too. You get to be the first to use anything that was completed in the build phase. Player also goes first in the build phase, so any ties for wonders go to you.

 

[killercane]

"Interturn" is not a good word for it; the whipping happens during YOUR turn, the unit is produced next turn. So if you dont take the city and leave one unit, there will be two the next actual turn. On the other hand, if you are attacked during the AI's turn, you cannot whip... so on your turn you would whip a defender in the underdefended city but it isnt produced and the AI takes it in the interturn (their turn). Follow what Im saying? EDIT: Never mind I do see what you are saying and have not thought about it like that (turn order I mean). The effect is still detrimental to your war effort.

I think ive confused myself talking and thinking about interturns and whatnot. The point is it could be considered a "cheat" (not my preferred word), bug, advantage, or what have you. There are certainly ways around it, but it is unfair to people who dont realize whats happening and do not bring one or more additional attackers to take a city/cities. I hope Im making sense.

 

[Conflicted!?]

I am sorry, this is off topic, but when I click "Save changes" to change my avatar it says this: POST requests from foreign hosts are not allowed. Please help!

 

[RegentMan]

1. Player moves
2. AI moves
3. Player production
4. AI production

Thus you can see that if an AI rushes a spear during phase two, it'll be ready in phase four, which is right before the player's turn. No cheating; it's just the way the turn-based game works.