T1-4: Temple of Doom

[angeleyes]

0 1520 AD Like the hero William of Orange once said: you can fight on, even if there's no hope left.

Make a trade deal with Nappy

Temple of Doom: bank. Open borders with Mao. Sell rice to Vicky for a dump prize: 2/turn. Texcoco (very south) will become a hammer-oriented city

IB Huayna Capac adopts State Property

2 Convert to slavery to be able to whip a few health-buildings

3 Gunpowder > Chemistry

4 Nappy, our only trading partner, has something to say to his peaceloving neightbours ....

Of course nobody wants to join us, and Shaka is telling us :" We Have Enough On Our Hands Right Now ": well well, will it be us or Mao?

Situation around Chartres looking bad: send our military towards this city but don't know if they will be in time: it will take 3 turns before our army in big T arrives in Chartres.

IB 2 french cats attack Chartres, one dies, the other retreats

5 Bad news again: while we are running 5 priests in ToD, guess who's born here? J.S.Bach! I order him to compose some marching music and wait for future orders.
I'm afraid our army from big T will come one turn too late to safe Chartres, but even if they get there in time, i think it would have been hopeless, i count 21 french troops and it could be (much) more, against 5 defenders.

IB We kill 6 attackers (2 musk , cat, treb, mace, crossb) but lose Chartres

6 I'm able to take back Chartres with the force from big T, but we certainly would lose it the next turn, so i'll play a waiting game while building an army that's able to strike back.

7 With a bank in ToD we research almost at a rate of 100%. Keeping Courage!

IB They are coming for Texcoco ....

8 Texcoco got walls > musketman. I think we can hold this (till now rather worthless) city.

IB Four maces attacking Texcoco, 3 die, and one of our longbows.

9 20 Attackers have gathered before the walls of Texcoco, it's defenders count 14.

IB This time the attack is serious: french catapult dies ..., french catapult dies ..., french musketeer dies ..., french musketeer dies ..., french crossbowman dies ..., french maceman dies ..., french crossbowman dies ..., french longbowman dies ..., french longbowman dies ..., french longbowman dies ..., french maceman dies ..., french maceman dies ..., aztec ( ?, oh yeah)longbowman dies ..., french crossbowman dies ..., french crossbowman dies ..., french longbowman dies ..., french pikeman dies ..., fight's over. 1 of us, 16 of them.

Ramesses II asks to cancel deals with Mao, no.

10 1550 AD Great General Georgy Zhukov born in ToD, send him to big T . Get spices from Mao for our rice.

In the mean time french forces have arrived at Tlaxcala, we can handle this

Our hero's in Texcoco are wounded but have great moral:

I suggest not to give up the fight untill we have Nappy on his knees, i think we can trust Bede for that. Good luck! (pray Shaka will declare on Mao, not on us). (And Nap has musketeers with 2 movements, i lost a cat cause i didn't realize that).


Get him back!

 

[frankcor]

Great work, Asperger! I would have been amazed if a Great General had NOT been born following that onslaught at Texcoco! I don't recall ever getting hit that hard by an AI invasion force before. Let's add an extra round of beer to the rations for the defenders there.

Grenadiers will be sorely welcome in a few more turns. They'll help tame those Musketeers. Should we consider Nationhood for a Draft after that?

 

[angeleyes]

[....] Grenadiers will be sorely welcome in a few more turns. They'll help tame those Musketeers. Should we consider Nationhood for a Draft after that?

We don't have iron for cannon's (Steel) so Nationalism will be next tech to research i think, or going straight to rifles.

 

[frankcor]

oh yeah, I forgot. That's why I foolishly attacked Mao. Duh!

 

[Bede]

What is about Chartres? Everybody wants it....

And I'm back in the hot corner!

I look forward to delivering some hurt to the Napster. Maybe I can make his corner hot......got it for tomorrow night.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Hi guys...I'm back and glad to see you're hanging in there!

HC has Communism...crikey!!

 

[Bede]

Here's the plan:

Weather the attacks at Texcoco and Tlaxcala then go on the offensive in two prongs - one from the north aimed at Rouen and one from the south aimed at Lyons or Marseille.

But until those Frenchmen are off our lands we are not going anywhere

So the catapult build up continues.

Zhukov arrives at Big T just as the longbow at Tlaxcala fights off a French mace assault He builds a Military Academy.

When enough cats are in position at Tlaxcala

Lance that abscess!

Then perform the same surgery at Texcoco.

This is not good news, the offensive will have to wait for grenadiers.

Then kill the two marauding Musketeers in the temple precincts with forces diverted from Texcoco.

Run a road in Chinese territory to support the upcoming invasion

And move some troops to the hill above Chartres. That town has to be recaptured to keep French vandals out of the neighborhood. Meanwhile. any that move onto the flats will be fair game.

Once Chemistry is learned the research spigot is turned off so I can upgrade CR2 maces and when sufficient numbers are in place at Chartres

Throw some stones and retake the city

In the north we have reached the gates of Rouen with our diversionary force.

Not enough muscle to capture the town, but enough to keep Napolean occupied for a while. He responds by drafting rifles and garrisoning the town. Just what I wanted him to do. I can start picking off his rifles at Rouen as the grenadiers get there, build up forces in the south at Chartres and Texococo and take the battle to Lyons.

Emancipation Envy starts to show up

so temples are whipped and garrisons strengthened meanwhile.

More siege engines are needed at the gates of Lyons, but I can pillage the food sources while waiting.

The catapults at Rouen are performing near flawlessly and a steady stream of grenadier reinforcements are picking off the wounded.

Napolean has launched a feeble counter attack at Chartes

and will only accept that town in any peace negotiations

We are out the box, but not out of the woods. Napoleon has been drafting rifles (or whipping them) at Rouen and Lyons and Marseilles so further advances will be bloody. When Rouen falls I would burn it. It will be surrounded by either French or Chinese culture.

 

[frankcor]

Wow! What else can I say? The Mad Monk is a master!

 

[Jet]

That's tenacity! Got it.

 

[Jet]

I think I'm going to take this one leisurely (that is, probably not finish until tomorrow night).

Hilarity observed on turn zero:
* we're at least six techs behind everyone else
* HC is kindly upgrading our medieval roads to railroads

I also noticed that TOD is running an engineer (presumably by accident). We really need to keep an eye on it and run as many priests as we can. Part of the reason for that is simply GP probabilities: right now we're at 79% Prophet, 15% Artist, 5% Engineer.

I'm very pleased with our military position ("pleased" in relative terms, of course ), but Bede, I'm a little confused about your intermediate goals. You described the Rouen force as diversionary, which seems quite reasonable, but on the other hand the composition of the stack appears to be oriented toward city attack, and you also suggested razing Rouen. My best guess is that right now what you're suggesting is
1. Raze Rouen simply because its defenses and garrison is worn down, and we can. Then, move the same stack on to Marseilles, and again use it for diversionary purposes (or capture or raze Marseilles if there's an opportunity).
2. Continue reinforcing both stacks, pillaging Lyons, and then capturing Lyons when possible.
Am I understanding your suggestions correctly? I haven't yet pressed enter to see what is garrisoning Lyons, but from what I can see at the moment, it seems reasonable enough.

Alternatively I might consider razing Rouen, then sending some of that stack to help capture Lyons.

Depending what the culture looks like after the hoped-for capture of Rouen (and depending what other information I have), I might even consider keeping Rouen. It's on a hill; it could get two resources if Amiens and Marseilles were razed and if Gaul's culture doesn't infringe, and it would count as "free" after its first border pop. That's pretty up in the air, though.

One other question, Bede - why is research at zero percent? Were you thinking we should build more Macemen and upgrade them to Grenadiers?

Unless there are strong objections, I'm also thinking I might try to sneak in a settler or two in this turnset to drop to the west and southwest of TOD.

I looked at Mercantilism, but looking at our trade routes it seems clear that we're much better off in Decentralization. The potential for a few extra hammers etc wouldn't be worth it.

Asperger, you really love those health buildings! I'm curious, why did you build one in Texcoco (since you mentioned health buildings, I assume it was you)? Even after Bede's turn set, Texcoco is at pop 5, health 10, unhealth 6. Was it bursting at the seams? I probably would have built Altar>Barracks>units and deferred an Aqueduct until it was absolutely necessary to continue growth... but maybe during your turnset, it was?

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I also noticed that TOD is running an engineer (presumably by accident). We really need to keep an eye on it and run as many priests as we can. Part of the reason for that is simply GP probabilities: right now we're at 79% Prophet, 15% Artist, 5% Engineer.

I think the best way to do this is to set the Gov to max food/hammers/commerce: that way he'll never assign specialists and all we need to do is 'yellow box' a priest as needed/desired.

HC has railroads? Can we last long enough to ?!?

 

[angeleyes]

[....] Asperger, you really love those health buildings! I'm curious, why did you build one in Texcoco (since you mentioned health buildings, I assume it was you)? Even after Bede's turn set, Texcoco is at pop 5, health 10, unhealth 6. Was it bursting at the seams? I probably would have built Altar>Barracks>units and deferred an Aqueduct until it was absolutely necessary to continue growth... but maybe during your turnset, it was?

I remember when i whipped an aquaduct Texcoco was at pop 6 and health was 8, Napoleon hasn't declared war yet, i converted to slavery (intention only 5 turns) to whip a few grocery's in the north in city's that were already unhealthy, and i thought: wel, let's also whip a aquaduct in Texcoco now i'm able to whip, it's growing well and we need one in the near future; but i also remember after whipping, leaving Texcoco with less pop: that was maybe a bit too early......
In principle i like whipping a health building when a city is unhealthy.

We got a great artist in my turns (J.S. Bach), do we still have him? We could use him in one of the new french city's we are going to capture, eg. Rouen?! And the french city above Rouen has iron iirc. If that's true, burn that artist here.

 

[Jet]

We do still have J.S. Bach.

Well... I captured Rouen on turn 2 and razed it. I continued skirmishing until turn 7, when I made peace for 300 because Chartres was vulnerable, we were hurting a bit from war weariness, and we had a lack of siege units.

Spoiler :

0: 1610:
tweaked TOD and increased research to 70% (-2 GPT, we have 132). Steel in 34. A couple building whips are possible but they might as well grow instead.
IB:
(what does that stand for?): We lose a Musketman, not sure where.

1: 1613:
TOD temple -> Grenadier
Saxon Musketman -> Grenadier. Musketman holds, I'm worried about Mao.
Tweak some cities' citizens.
I check out Lyons: 3. Riflemen and a Grenadier. I keep pillaging.
I take a chance on waiting on Rouen and wait a turn to move a treb up (lead grenadiers are at 35%. I don't know.)
Work on some roads, and Tenochtitlan needs a cottage.
Chartres isn't doing good. Gren, Musket, 3 Longbows, and treb threatened by Rifle, 3 Grens, and 2 injured trebs. I give the treb collateral and suicide it on the larger stack. I whip its granary -> Barrakcs, what a mess.

2: 1616:
Lyons has been reinforced. I keep pillaging.
Unfortunately Rouen has been reinforced too. Rouen:
Treb suicides
Cat suicides.
Gren vs Rifleman at 75% wins.
Gren vs Rifleman at 95% wins.
Gren vs Gren at 95% wins.
Rouen is not pressured by Chinese culture but it is by French culture from the north and south - I'm not confident that we can clean out both, so I raze it.
IB:
Follow-up stack on Rouen tile loses Gren, Musket, then Mace repels Rifleman.
Chartres repels cat and treb then loses a longbow. Some of the attackers have reinforced Lyons, though.

3: 1619:
Tlaxcala Granary -> Barracks.
Skirmish around the ruins of Rouen and Marseilles.
Skirmish around Chartres.
Keep pillaging Lyons.
General -> Instructor in Big T.
IB:
Chartres attacked but not taken

4:
Big T Gren -> Gren
Interrupt Barrackes in Chartres to whip a Longbow.
IB:

5: 1625:

6:
Little T treb -> treb
In TOD, we're up to 4 WW and 4 Emancipation W. Culture to 20%.

7: 1631:
Big T Gren -> Gren.
Napoleon takes peace for 300. I'd happy to declare on him, but we have very few seige units.
I'm at a bit of a loss for what to do, so I spend the rest of the turnset building barracks, units, and... 2 settlers for the TOD suburbs.
I also allow some builds to finish (Forge in new Tenochtitlan, Altar in Texcoco.
Or, at least that's my intent.
There's a giant Chinese stack near Gaul: 9 Knights, 3 Muskets, 4 Elephants, Maceman, 4 Trebs.
We'll see what happens with that.

8: 1634:
Saxon Gren -> Gren, holds.

9: 1637:
Settle another Prophet.
HC finishes the statue of liberty. That's a good one on Oasis!

10: 1640:
Big T Gren -> Gren.

11: 1643:
Refuse Ramses adopt OR. I probably should have done it though, it wouldn't cost us much to do it for 5 turns.
TOD Gren -> Colosseum. As our largest city it's the worst hit by Emancipation and War weariness.
Chartres Barracks -> Gren.
Tlax Barrachs -> Gren.

12: 1646:
Big T Gren -> Treb.

13: 1649:
Ramses cancels Dye for Fur.
Coincidentally, HC asks us to cancel our deals with Ramses, which at this point is just OB, so I agree. HC is Pleased and I want him that way. I hope we'll stay above his war threshold.
Little T Treb -> Settler.
Texcoco Barracks -> Gren.

14: 1652:
Big T Treb -> Cat.
Wait, now it's 1655? I'll just play one more turn:

??: 1658:
TOD Colosseum -> Gren.
Big Cat -> Cat.
Saxon Gren -> Gren.

 

[frankcor]

Am I up now? I haven't seen a roster in a while.

 

[Jet]

Yep, you're up, frankcor. (The general roster is in the first post.)

 

[frankcor]

(The general roster is in the first post.)

Doh! I knew that.

I have the save and I'm playing now.

 

[frankcor]

@Jet -- I think you were asking what IB means? I use IBT for "in between turns."

Inherited turn (1658 AD): I looked for opportunities to micromanage our cities. I saw that the governor at TOD was already setup to emphasize Food and Commerce as suggested by Swiss Pauli. We should try to find a way to remember to check back here in 14 turns when TOD grows. I put a sign there but it looks pretty stooopid. Nothing else stood out except maybe at Chartres where I make a note to build at least one more farm there. It was only size 3 at that point in time and growing slowly. It could also use more culture so I stopped working on a Grenadier there and started a Theatre construction project(38). I noted that Tenochtitlan could also use more culture to counteract the Incan culture imposing on it's populace but I decided to permit the forge construction to continue to completion in 3 more turns.

I planned to lay off the whip -- our cities are small, the result of having to whip up an army to beat the French. I hope to let them grow some to prepare them for the next round of whippings. I also plan to implement Jet's plans to found two more cities in the western shadow of our great city, Temple of Doom.

IBT: Mao asked that we trade Dye for Marble with him. I don't see that we need marble for anything soon so I asked him for Crab instead. He jumped on it and we then were able to enjoy reduced health problems in our cities. He was now +1 Cautious with us.

Turn 1 (1661 AD): Tlatelolco trained a Catapult, started a Grenadier(2).

Where do I send new units? I know we're likely to go back to war with Napolean but Jet expressed concerns about Mao's stacks nearby. I chose to bivouac at Chartres which is not that far from the Chinese border.

IBT: Napoleon made a demand:

Maybe he just hit me in a bad mood, but I rejected his threat. He was not in the mood for any trading either. He was now at -5 annoyed with us.

Turn 2 (1664 AD): I started the farm I had noted for Chartres.

Turn 3 (1667 AD): Tlatelolco trained a Grenadier, started another(3). I sent the Grenadier south in anticipation of a new city needing a Garrison in a few turns. Tenochtitlan constructed a Forge, started a Library(9).

Turn 4 (1670 AD): TOD trained a Grenadier, started another(5). This one was designated for garrison duty too. Teotihuacan trained a Settler, started a Buddhist Temple(4). Texcoco trained a Grenadier, started Library(9).

Turn 5 (1673 AD): Our first Settler arrives west of TOD. I picked this site:

It steals two tiles from Huamanga (where I see it has Infantry in its garrison) but it'll have to work to keep it. Huamanga is humongus. This is going to really tick off the Incans. Nonetheless, I founded Calixtlahuaca and started it to work on a Theatre(38). Its Grenadier Garrison got a CGII promotion as he took his post.

Turn 6 (1676 AD): Tlatelolco trained a Grenadier, started a Trebuchet(3).

Hinduism spread to Calixtlahuaca (that was fast).

Turn 7 (1679 AD): Teotihuacan constructed a BUddhist Temple, started a Settler(7).

Turn 8 (1682 AD): Tlatelolco trained a Trebuchet, started a Grenadier(2).

Turn 9 (1685 AD): TOD trained a Grenadier, started a Hindu Missionary(2). Saxon trained a Grenadier, started a Confucian Monastery(4). This Grenadier was sent north to beef up the garrison at Tenochtitlan.

Turn 10 (1688 AD): Tlatelolco trained a Grenadier, started a Trebuchet(2).

Hmmm, I looked a TOD. It's grown recently (my math was off) but hasn't assigned any new specialists. Swiss Pauli was spot on. I took down the stooopid sign.

We're down from 70% research to 60% with +3gold/turn -- the new city dragged us down a bit. Steel due in 3 turns. There's a Grenadier fortified on a jungle hill SW of TOD, waiting for the Settler to be done at Little-T. That's the end of my builder set -- I figure I owed it to the team for invading China last time I played. Here's the save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/81694/Temple_of_Doom_AD-1688.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Got it and will play tonight.

EDIT: Had a look this morning and there's lots of micro to change - I notice that the Govs are switched off nearly everywhere, including ToD, where we still have a rice unirrigated! I think we should whip this city down a bit, so we can reduce the culture slider.

I'd have settled Cali on the blue circle above (or 1 tile north if we wanted to steal the gems). But what's done is done, so I will settle JS Bach in Cali, unless anyone objects. The above blue circle will receive the next settler (sugar/dyes).

Mao's SoD up by Gaul is pretty scary, as it could hit one of two cities. We're highly likely to get crushed by a Mao/Boney dogpile, as Boney is sure to redeclare at some point. I'll probably build loads of cats in the hope that we can collateral damage stacks enough to destroy them. And hope that a knight in shining armour (HC?) comes to save us...

Finally, is anyone up for a replay? I wouldn't mind trying this sort of map with Capac: with his fancy warriors we'll have less barb troubles, FIN's always good, and Terraces rock. IND will also be handy for Ankgor Wat.

 

[frankcor]

Pauli, there's another Settler being trained for the blue circle (or nearby the blue circle).

Good luck! I'm not convinced this game is lost yet. The Barbarians really did a good job of holding us up. You're right about the potential for a dogpile on us because of our low power rating. We can beat a technological superior enemy with lots of production. The question is, therefore, do we possess the production facilities to hold off one AI while we clobber another.

 

[Jet]

I might be up for a replay.

Consider whether it might be better to save the GA for Iron.