Tactics and strategy...follow the action
- Thread starter Indiansmoke
- Start date
Krill
Deity
You guys got a stupid amount of food and plains hills there. The fact that the worst start has but a single 6 food resource is just...wow.
Was this map checked over my a map maker or not?
Was this map checked over my a map maker or not?
Indiansmoke
Deity
No, but after 3.19 these starts are quite common...however all 5 of us having good start is not very common.
Are you worried about the balance of the game?
Krill
Deity
I knew that in 3.19 the starts got improved, just not quite improved by that amount...beforehand my starts were always unirrigated rice. Maybe I was unlucky like that, but the 4 double food starts just changes the game so much.
Renata, CFC has Mali, Maya and Natives, so 3 of the 5 civs can't get warrior choked. Which combined with the immense food means that you guys should probably win it...
Renata, CFC has Mali, Maya and Natives, so 3 of the 5 civs can't get warrior choked. Which combined with the immense food means that you guys should probably win it...
. 
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
@Munro, i actually planned on a worker -> SK start if we can get archery after 7 turns (which we can it seems)... I don't have ran through the numbers, I will post about it in the evening... need to relax a bit after work now... 
@Krill: Thanks for putting us an incredible pressure!
I am better under it usually 
(I actually start doing things...)
@Krill: Thanks for putting us an incredible pressure!
I am better under it usually (I actually start doing things...)If we go Archery first can we get BW in time to slave workers when we are want to? I think early skirms are more valuable than early dogs anyways. There is also a 1:5 chance I am next to Babylon, while makes rushing dogs pointless. I also might want to stay a bit closer to home and keep units off my forest hills.
Munro
Deity
Moved the scout onto the grasslands hill SW of my zulu settler, but revealed nothing more in the BFC of my starting position, so I've moved the settler onto the plains hill NW, for settling next turn.
I do have marble 3S1E of my original starting location though, and more (3rd!) corn down there too.
I do have marble 3S1E of my original starting location though, and more (3rd!) corn down there too.
Indiansmoke
Deity
@ Krill....thanks for the pressure...oh you guys would suck really bad if you did not win this!
Since you have not been playing this map after 3.19, you are in no position to say that our starts are overpowered. I have seen marble hill starts with 2 food and iron in every single game...and what exactly is OP?
You think 1 rice and a plains cow is OP?
2 corn (1 not irrigated) without 2 hammer plant is OP?
1 corn with 2 hammer plant is OP?
The only 2 starts that are very good are zulu and mali....the other 3 are common starts for this setup.
So gives us noobs a break here....
Since you have not been playing this map after 3.19, you are in no position to say that our starts are overpowered. I have seen marble hill starts with 2 food and iron in every single game...and what exactly is OP?
You think 1 rice and a plains cow is OP?
2 corn (1 not irrigated) without 2 hammer plant is OP?
1 corn with 2 hammer plant is OP?
The only 2 starts that are very good are zulu and mali....the other 3 are common starts for this setup.
So gives us noobs a break here....
Indiansmoke
Deity
Dan, archery first is pointless. The first build is warrior anyway and then worker. Even if Mali does worker first, if we go archery what will it do with the worker while we wait for bronze? Also it will need to grow size 2 and slave archer as producing it witout chop or slaving will be slow and inneficient.
So even for the 1 civ you say it would benefit, the benefit is questionable.
Now regarding dogs...upgrading is a gamble as it will delay our tech a bit. However while you have 20% to start next to babylon, you have 80% to start next to any other civ. You can have a dog upgrated at the edge of your border at turn 8. If you are 6 tiles away from opponent that is a dog next to tehir capital at turn 14.
It takes 5 turns to grow size 2 another 4 to be able to slave worker and 1 anarchy, that is turn 10 that they will slave worker...that is start archer turn 11 and the fastest you can get it is in 2...so turn 13.
So there is no chance Anyone will have an archer before turn 13 (unless they are on 3 hammer hill)...and turn 13 is if they work hammers after slaving to get archer, thus stalling growth...which most people if they do not see the dog comming will not do.
So it is a gamble that might have a big payoff.
Also important is if you spot a close enemy with your scout to not let them see your scout (if you can avoid it) and know that tehy have natives close.
But at the end of the day it is up to you....
In any case next turn you do not need to run at 0%...so you have 2 more turns of scout movement before you decide.
Indiansmoke
Deity
Something else potentially important...when you chat in game, make sure you chat to team and not to all.
If you chat to all and members of the other team log in during same turn they can see what you said.
Ras used chat to all yesterday saying that he has marble and stone in capital...they might have noticed that. Just be carefull with that.
If you chat to all and members of the other team log in during same turn they can see what you said.
Ras used chat to all yesterday saying that he has marble and stone in capital...they might have noticed that. Just be carefull with that.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
@IndianSmoke: yeah sorry about that... Dan warned me but for some reason the settings kept coming back to "speak to all"... anyway, will pay attention from now on...
Indiansmoke
Deity
Something else.....can someone that knows please explain.
In the screen of my capital (further up posted) you can see that I make 10 commerce (8 palace + 1 city tile + 1 from corn) which is 10 beackers. This should be multiplied by 1.2 which is the pre req multiplier for bronze working and I should have contributed 12 beackers towards the tech this turn.
But instead I have contributed 13...where does that extra beacker come from?
In the screen of my capital (further up posted) you can see that I make 10 commerce (8 palace + 1 city tile + 1 from corn) which is 10 beackers. This should be multiplied by 1.2 which is the pre req multiplier for bronze working and I should have contributed 12 beackers towards the tech this turn.
But instead I have contributed 13...where does that extra beacker come from?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
No idea Indiansmoke...
Though I ve made some tests about techs: I 've got BW 6, archery 3, AH 4 turns... I wasn't using the good map for other civs but mine was correct... do you guys have the same numbers? I thought it was BW 5, archery 2...
Though I ve made some tests about techs: I 've got BW 6, archery 3, AH 4 turns... I wasn't using the good map for other civs but mine was correct... do you guys have the same numbers? I thought it was BW 5, archery 2...
Indiansmoke
Deity
yea strange...that free beacker is before or after pre req multipliers are applied?
Also is it every turn or just the first?
Indiansmoke
Deity
OK I have calculated the time needed for bronze and it seems that we willget it in 6 turns regardless of whether Natives save gold from third turn.
Of course the overflow to archery will be less so we will get archery 1 turn later.
So in the cost of delaying archery...and every other tech after that for 1 turn, natives will get a chance to upgrade a warrior to a dog and cause some damage or at least slow down significantly his closest civ (if there is one).
It is a gamble...it might pay off or not...what do you say?
Of course the overflow to archery will be less so we will get archery 1 turn later.
So in the cost of delaying archery...and every other tech after that for 1 turn, natives will get a chance to upgrade a warrior to a dog and cause some damage or at least slow down significantly his closest civ (if there is one).
It is a gamble...it might pay off or not...what do you say?
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
I guess I can just go with worker -> warrior -> SK instead of worker ->SK... OK for me (warrior is always usefull for happiness even if no target is close)
