Taking it to another level

[GoBigOrGoHome70]

I'm sure this question has been asked many times. And there's probably no right answer, or even agreement on what to do. Having said that, here's my dilemma. I can beat the game at Prince level, but if I increase the difficulty I get stomped. I've read quite a few posts, and it's almost like many of the more experienced players are speaking another language. I'm not clear on the very basics of what they are doing differently than I am. So I figured the best way to approach this is to let you know what I do and then have someone tell me what I need to do differently.

I usually build my first city on the first turn, without moving my Settler. I then start moving my warrior around, doing some exploration. My first science research is always based on the resources around my city - if gold is nearby, I'll research mining, etc. My first production is always a worker. I always try to decide what method of winning I will use on the first turn.

Taking it from turn 1, I don't generally try to beeline to a particular technology, instead I stick within a particular era, trying to get all the tech in that era. I move on to the next era generally only when I have all the tech from the previous one. There can be exceptions to this, but not usually.

I try to have three cities built by turn 100. Usually regardless of what my end goal is, it's OK to have three cities. I generally don't specialize the types of buildings, etc. that go into these cities. Depending upon the goal there are some buildings and other production that I don't find worthwhile, but I could use some pointers here.

I do use some citizen management, but it is haphazard at best.

I've tried different cultural trees. Frequently to start I might open two or three, and then fill in the one best suited to my end goal.

Usually my problems revolve around gold and/or happiness. For example, if I am trying to get to a Domination victory, I'll focus on growth of cities, and production of units and military related buildings. I will probably open the Honor tree and try to fill that in. I can generally knock off a few other Civs, but without a doubt there will be one that is so far ahead of me that he's nuking me (literally) before I have even developed flight. And I'll be battling happiness and gold issues all the while. My strategy probably should be to buy more stuff to develop faster, but since I am struggling with gold, I can't.

So, what should I be doing more actively to get better at the game?

 

[Belzek]

I recently made the jump from prince to king too and now beating it regularly. Some things I found helpful:


Production: Scout - Monument - Worker
You don't need a worker till you have the tech to use the resource, so it doesn't pay to build it first. First build scout will provide a lot of information about the area and ruins for free bonuses.

Policies: Usually straight liberty..free Settler is the first one I take (for my 2nd city), then free worker, then fill it out for free great person.

Cash: Sell open borders to everyone at 50g. In a 8 person game, if you've met all the rest, its a nice income boost. Sell extra luxuries at 210g as soon as you have them.

I don't manage my cities much, usually just have one on 'production' focus for building wonders. I typically build 3 cities to start, and by then someone (or three) will have declared war and get all of the rest of my cities from them. The AI is definitely more aggressive on King, you won't have to wait long.

As mentioned above, try to get a great engineer early, either via policy or HS to have ready for Porcelain tower. After that, try to get into the next era to be able to get the rationalism starter. This will set you up for the big research agreement boosts that will keep you ahead in tech. Sign as many agreements as you can afford.

Techwise, filling out an era before moving on in general is a bad idea...there are new city-state bonuses and policy choices at one step into new eras, and usually very good military techs worth beelining to. Other then the techs for porcelain tower on the top of the tree, I usually fill out the bottom first, saving scientists for jumps to steelworking and rifling/cannons. Getting to them first to take out aggressive neighbors is critical. Being the first to Artillery is huge, you can wipe out anyone else not at the same level with ease.

As far as war goes, I puppet everything and build trading posts and mines on conquered territory. Don't let any declaration go unpunished, but never take the last city. If you have to declare on someone, denounce them first (you'll get a bonus diplo from others that have denounced, which I presume makes you less of a warmonger).

I typically concentrate on production and gold boosting buildings first, and then happiness buildings if I'm getting low. I rarely have more then a barracks in one city, units will get all the xp they need from fighting.

As the game progresses, keep an eye on the top scores...if someone is starting to get away from the pack, try to either beat them down or take out another neighbor to keep up with them.

In general, tech = victory, you need to focus on staying ahead and typically everything else falls in line.

 

[pxpdoo]

No matter the difficulty (King-ish), my first Production is Scout #1 (and maybe Scout #2, depending on my starting Production score), and then a Worker. The Scouts are for meeting other Civs, States, and - above all- finding Goody Huts.
I ignore the Monument in the first four (4) cities, preferring to let my Social Policies handle that (Tradition) (I think ) and popping Goody Huts with those aforementioned Scouts.
The biggest thing I do at the beginning is save up 500 gold (Goody Huts again!) and buy my first few Settlers while I go for Pyramids (Workers) and Stonehenge (more Culture). (I like Ramesses with his Wonder bonus, along with that Tradition policy tree.) (Oh, and I open up the Honor tree right in here, in hopes of giving those Scouts a fighting chance.)
After that, I'm simply causing / reacting to the circumstances of that particular game. Chaos!
Never, ever, worry about the Era. It's basically meaningless in the early game, especially if you need something specific that's not in that Era...

 

[GoBigOrGoHome70]

Thanks for the advice, I will give it a try. Don't I need a lot of the ancient tech? Most resources require technology, and I need resources for happiness. Also don't I want to develop the rest of my terrain? If I don't fill in an era this seems challenging.

 

[Dregor]

My biggest problem is always trying to manage funds vs military. I probably over-build my cities and that's hurting me gold wise. But I'm constantly fighting off a negative gold per turn trying to keep my military at least partially relevant, if only to deter invasions.

 

[elprofesor]

It's actually harder to deter invasions via a significant force than to simply invade them. My personal recomendation is to invade your closest neighbour as soon as possible (if he's really close, you can even try with spearmen/warriors/archers/chariot archers, depending on your UU), usually it's easiest to beeline steel (Great Scientist Wonders are great if they get you the GS to bulb Steel and speed the process; get 4-5 swordmen ready for the upgrade). That way you will have a big empire, which will already deter most invasions.

Try to avoid warmonger diplo penalties via meeting with the least civs before DoWing your neighbour/taking his capital/destroy him (do it ONLY if you've met nobody, or only Gengis Khan). Once you have a big empire, try to keep good relationships with middle sized civs: not the smaller ones, because they will never dare DoW you, nor the bigger ones, since they WILL eventually DoW you. And be careful with DoF, they are useful, but you don't want to get the runaway civ attention on you before you are ready. And only build a real army if you plan to invade someone, otherwise your just losing loads of money.

And rule number one is: never fall behind in military techs. If you do, you better have a very good plan, or you'll lose eventually (unless your enemies are in another continent, and don't have access to uranium).

I think your real problem is that you aren't aggressive enough. 3 cities is not enough, you must get more, and as XRW pointed, far better if it's your neighbour cities. More cities means more research, and more gold, both from hexes and trade routes.

 

[Naokaukodem]

That's it ! Civilization 4 and 5 with new "balancing" patches are for the hardcore audience. I never completed an immortal game of Civ4, neither did I with King Civ5. The developers seem to have forget that there aren't only hardcore gamers in the world, that those are a minority whether they have a great mouth. To do a great game : first, and most importantly, never ever listen to the fans.

I regret deeply the Civ1, 2 and 3 times where a basic understanding of the game rules was leading to victory in the highest difficulty level. Now, the simple gaming do not suffice ! You have to be a smart ass, which I am not, taking decisions that are not always the obvious way to streamline.

In Civ4 the War Weariness was very anti-game, preventing you to wage long if not wars alone. The spying system was crazy, with all those spies pillaging and poisonning your cities (the AI is the best when it comes to annoy, and not only that, it was so expert in doing so that sometimes when your city was poisonned 2 or 3 times in a row it could really become preoccupant), not to consider the wonderfull CITY MAINTENANCE SYSTEM, when a new planted city was pumping an arbitrary, not documented sum of gold per turn, crippling your economy faster that it takes to say it.

Now with Civ5, it's the happiness system which is anti-game, limiting you DRAMATICALLY when the other AIs have virtually NO LIMIT, expanding like a big pig that it is, blocking you on a peninsula, denouncing you for petty reasons when it is it that should be denounced by itself, and finally mass-declaring war to you.

Those two games are so bullshited that I could never take pleasure in playing them, except for some time in Settler difficulty, the time to drink all the juice made out of art, conquest and domination.

 

[GoBigOrGoHome70]

I have to say thanks, I tried many of the suggestions here and won on my first try. Probably a fluke, but it certainly seemed I was able to hold my own.

 

[Rpger29]

I guarantee it's not a fluke. I'm not saying you'll beat 100% of King level games from now on, but It's a very beatable level.

Personally, I think only Immortal and Deity could be considered "hardcore only." Some people would even say that Immortal is too easy, but we all have our own opinions on such things.

All King level takes is a relative narrowing of focus during certain portions of the game. While you may be able to build 20-26 wonders on Prince, you'll need to pick some that you can do without on King.

Moving up the difficulty incrementally only requires that you ask yourself "what can I do without right now? "What items would benefit me the most given the circumstances?" is also a good question to ask.

I would also say this. Just because you can beat the game on deity or immortal doesn't mean there's anything wrong with picking a more comfortable difficulty level. I've won 2 deity and maybe 6-8 immortal games now, but I play on Prince, King, Emperor depending on the game/map settings.

 

[chazzycat]

generally yes, all it should take is a bit of narrowing the focus. King is definitely very beatable and is probably not a fluke. Anyways here's a few random tips.

- always build 2 scouts at the beginning unless it's small or archipelago map. I found my early game improving a lot once I started doing this. Try to keep your scouts alive as long as possible by only moving 1 tiles at a time and avoiding barbs. Ruins give all sorts of cool advantages, and finding city states can give a decent amount of gold. Gold that early is really key. You want to buy a worker as soon as you have 310 saved up.

- If you ever hook up a 2nd copy of a luxury you already have, sell it immediately. Or, even if its the first luxury, but you don't need the happiness. Same goes for strategics - if you don't need them, sell them. If you have friendly AIs you should get 240 gold per lux and 225 per 5 strategics. Watch for the diplomacy notifications saying deals have expired, and immediately renegotiate.

- 3 cities is good in a lot of situations, but I wouldn't lock yourself into that type of strategy. If you have more space than that around you, and especially if you have a lot of different luxuries, you should totally take advantage by expanding. Just remember happiness is the key constricting factor on expansion and every new city needs 3 happy points just to offset it's starting unhappiness. Hence luxuries being so important.

- Early on it's best to stick with one of the three opening policy branches, not skip around. There are some exceptions like Egypt & Siam where it's best to mix liberty & tradition because of legalism. But in general you want to pick one of three paths and stick with that tree.

Tradition - Is for building up a super-capital. If your capital is in an awesome location and you are ok with delaying expansion, tradition is great. Build an early wonder or two, get the national college up, and then expand.

Liberty - Is for fast expansion. A free settler, free worker, and free great person at the end are all very powerful. The other policies aren't bad either.

Honor - is for warmongering. If your starting land sucks, or there is not enough of it to meet your goals, you're best off invading a neighbor or 2. Honor will help in that regard.

So you kinda want to pick what path you are going early in the game. Which path is best really depends on the map, and your civ. Hence the importance again of early scouting, to make the best decisions.

 

[Fluffball]

Cash: Sell open borders to everyone at 50g. In a 8 person game, if you've met all the rest, its a nice income boost. Sell extra luxuries at 210g as soon as you have them.

While generally a good tip it can often be more trouble than it's worth.e.g. if you are between two warring nations you can expect them to move their armies through your territory quite frequently, blocking your roads in particular which hinders free movement for your units, especially civilian ones. The biggest annoyance though is if you DoW'd it can be hard to move units around to reinforce parts of your empire and even at the point of conflict due to neutral units with OB agreements getting in the way.

 

[Becomedeath]

When you first move to a new level I would recommend chosing your opponents. Moving up a difficulty level to find you're stuck between Japan, the Mongols and the Aztecs is never fun. (And the computer seems to know you're new to it and does it on purpose! )

I think once you've beaten it once, it's easier to beat it again. I remember when I first made the move from Prince to King and noticed the jump in the AI's capability, it seems to be come more proactive and less reactive so you have to adapt your previously staple strategies.

My <King games almost relied on getting early wonders, now I almost fixate on getting the PT and anything else is just a bonus.

 

[TPQ]

So, what should I be doing more actively to get better at the game?

Be Aggressive early. Take only the best cities, but always leave the target with one left. Never kill a city state or Civ outright. Don't trust any AI. Don't sign declarations of friendship. Be aggressive. Only sign research agreements with distant Civs. Build up an army early. Be aggressive. Find the Iron and settle it. Expect to be attacked and back-stabbed. Be ruthless. Treat every other Civ as the competitors they are. Be aggressive.

 

[Rpger29]

Nah you can totally sign DoF's under the right circumstances. Just know that you must sign a DoF with a decent civ and from a position of power. You don't want to DoF the needy weakling civs. Don't sign RA's with anyone who has an interest in invading you.

DoF can be very valuable if you use it to ally a strong and distant AI. You generally won't want to be in a DoF with a neighbor.

 

[fat_tonle]

Diety is pretty much unbeatable.... Immortal you need a lot of luck, but its very beatable... everything else shouldn't be a problem for anyone who has some game sense.

Don't waste a single turn and rush it. There is no time table. If you can get something in 5 turns instead of 6... that counts. If you can salvage a warrior early... that counts.

Once you learn to maximize your turns, it is pretty much GG and the comp needs Immortal plus bonuses to beat you. Doesn't matter what civ you are, just utilize the bonuses. Certainly some civs have major advantages but I have won cultural with Babylonia on Immortal.

If you are beelining to a tech.... say education.... make sure you can purchase universities as soon as the tech is complete for example.... if you have a lot of fish and beeline to Navigation.... be sure you can purchase the sea port then and there.

SAVE MONEY. Oligarchy is a must. That saves massive money and you usually don't have to build more idle units than cities you have. Assuming non-military, building play.

Conquest requires Honor finisher ASAP. but you will fall behind with your culture points. Save barbarian huts for kills. Beeline to the Castle policy for +2 culture/Garrison.

Wonders.... look at your surroundings and decides what wonders yo need. If you have mad quarries and mines, but no food, it's a waste. Go for Hanging Gardens... if you have massive food and plantations, go for a money and culture game. Buy your culture building the minute you finish the tech. Plan around getting Philosophy or Acoustics RIGHT BEFORE you can open the policy for 4 free Culture buildings.

Maximize your money, don't build more than you need, plan your production/policies accordingly. My easiest method is Culture or Science victory. I can not beat the game at conquest playing on QUICK because I don't have the patience, but those two victories are particularly easy. Diplo for civs like Greece/Siam/Arabia.

Oh... and NEVER be unhappy.... unhappiness for more than a few turns on the upper levels is pretty much death. And a correction from a previous post, don't sign open borders with a warmonger because they will declare war a few turns later, especially if you are pulling away from them. And pretty much everyone is a warmonger.