I finally decided to move up to Monarch. And for my arrogance, BTS and the folks at Firaxis rewarded me with the most charming of companions. I can only guess that Alex is on the other continent with Ghengis and Ragnar. It is a standard/epic/continents/3.13/spaceraceOFF/notechtrading map. There is stone to the south and copper to the north. I am thinking of an SE to start since the mids are possible with the stone. But my I think a gang of axemen might be my first order of business. Oh please let Monte found a religion and spread it to me. Though this start is not as bad as the time I played unrestricted leaders and had him as the ROMANS...right next door to me...then he got iron....things sort of went downhill from there. Feel free to chime in with your advice. I am something of a builder by nature until I feel cramped...I might not have that luxury this game.
talk about a bad neighborhood
- Thread starter CivCorpse
- Start date
True, but that sort of knowledge is just like checking the map in WB. I reloaded once again and died again due to wonder-building syndrome. I started a new game on a new map. too much knowledge of the old map made it seem unfair.
Do you mean you settled your second city before having BW?
Anyway, here is my general opinion on this issue :
if your neighbours aren't nice, or if your map is barabarian ridden, you need to grab horses or copper really asap. In really desperate situations, I would settle on horses or copper to make sure I can build some real units soon enough.
In less desperate situations (like this one), I would still settle close enough in order to be able to start improving the copper or horses right away.
Only case where I allow myself to settle 2 tiles away from the resource is I'm sure I'll have the border pop really fast, like having stonehnege already or being creative or being under caste system (I assign an artist straight away!).
This + priority on the wheel allows to build axemen or horses soon enough to defend efficiently against barbs and unfriendly neighbours.
edit: do you still have the initial save?
I may try this map.
no, it was overwritten when I started my new game. Sorry bout that. As for the two spaces from copper. I wanted the wheat in the BFC as well. I tend to plan long term. The second go round, I held off monty rather easily. Especially since I got the free shock promotion from an event. However the ensuing dogpile was rather brutal. Hannibal brought catapults...he cheats...and he has beady eyes
You researched archery that early?(waste of research! Get axes! 
)
As mentioned before,settle so you get copper in the first ring, and have that city produce axes/spears non stop so you have a decent stack with 5-8 axes reasonably soon.(1500-1000 BC should do the trick) You can't "plan" long term cities this early at higher difficulties.(you probably can get away with it still on monarch but don't depend your whole game on it)
I've been forced to settle my 2nd city with just copper-tundra and sea on some maps. Getting copper/horses in your 2nd or maybe even your 3rd city is critical. (depends on how fast you expand) Oh, and plan for a war with your closest neighbor. Either axe rush or when you get construction. Getting one rivals land should make the game easier for you. It's possible to play peaceful all the game, but thats a lot harder.
) As mentioned before,settle so you get copper in the first ring, and have that city produce axes/spears non stop so you have a decent stack with 5-8 axes reasonably soon.(1500-1000 BC should do the trick) You can't "plan" long term cities this early at higher difficulties.(you probably can get away with it still on monarch but don't depend your whole game on it)
I've been forced to settle my 2nd city with just copper-tundra and sea on some maps. Getting copper/horses in your 2nd or maybe even your 3rd city is critical. (depends on how fast you expand) Oh, and plan for a war with your closest neighbor. Either axe rush or when you get construction. Getting one rivals land should make the game easier for you. It's possible to play peaceful all the game, but thats a lot harder.
how do you manage to a) just have 3 cities and b) just have axes when the ais have both col and theo? It is only monarch. As long as you get enough workers / settlers it shouldn't be a problem to speed away from the AI..
KMadCandy
giggling permanoob
it's fun to rename your civ too
.as far as advice, i like to be at war as little as possible usually, not necessarily as a builder but kinda like you in a way (at least until you feel cramped). in your first neighborhood, i'd have courted toku. when i get alpha, i gift him techs to butter him up, he's very unlikely to trade them (assuming non-random personalities). he's a really loyal friend if you know how to jedi-mind-trick him and he's done me plenty of "be a buffer for me honey, i'm not ready to defend myself yet" attack puppy on a leash sort of thing. but alex is the bestest for that.
even (maybe especially) with scary aggressive neighbors, i find it reallllllllllllly helpful to decide who my friends and enemies will be. with mean neighbors it's really important to watch the relations between them in addition to their feelings toward you. you don't want your friend to be worst enemies with another friend for example, those "stop trading with the vile so-and-so" demands are lose-lose situations.
I don't think they have col and theo. I play with choose religions option. Those were the 1st and 2nd religions chosen.
URSExelcior
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2007
- Messages
- 135
Not as bad as ending up in the jungled part of a Pangea map with Alex, Tokugawa, Kublai Khan, Montezuma, Louis XIV, Isabella and Huayna Capac building spaceship parts in the 1700's...
I've seen Alex rush capitals in 2000BC with a stack of Cover-promoted archers
gettingfat
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2003
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- 1,417
Seriously, you've got an excellent.....no, amazing start location. You see two coppers nearby. There are plenty of food resources and hills so city growth and production are both non-issues. Your capital has a ton of forests to chop for axe rush if you wish to. This is the type of start people regenerate a dozen of times to get.
Maybe you should consider giving up the wonder-building hobby starting from Monarch level (I know I know, the stone located right outside the capital's fat cross was saying hi to you). You saw Montzy and Toku.... the probability of one of these two guys would attack you if your power rating was low is higher than the calorie value of a Large Big Mac combo.
And I personally won't settle 2 tiles away from the copper. It's not like settling east or NE of the copper is such a bad idea. With a copper mine, a cow pasture and two hills and some forests, this city will be good enough to be an early specialized military center. I would only build a barrack there, and churning out axe after axe non-stop.
You know what is bad? Play Liz, drawing an extensively flat floodplain start (sounds great, right?), then later realize you're cornered by Toku or Boudica, and don't have any metals and horses anywhere, and you don't have any production tiles so all your units are from whipping... till nobody in your cities want to work for you, and still the road to feudalism or construction (for longbows and cats) seems infinitely long. Then you see a zillion of Toku or Boudica's super promoted units partying in the city right near your border....
Maybe you should consider giving up the wonder-building hobby starting from Monarch level (I know I know, the stone located right outside the capital's fat cross was saying hi to you). You saw Montzy and Toku.... the probability of one of these two guys would attack you if your power rating was low is higher than the calorie value of a Large Big Mac combo.
And I personally won't settle 2 tiles away from the copper. It's not like settling east or NE of the copper is such a bad idea. With a copper mine, a cow pasture and two hills and some forests, this city will be good enough to be an early specialized military center. I would only build a barrack there, and churning out axe after axe non-stop.
You know what is bad? Play Liz, drawing an extensively flat floodplain start (sounds great, right?), then later realize you're cornered by Toku or Boudica, and don't have any metals and horses anywhere, and you don't have any production tiles so all your units are from whipping... till nobody in your cities want to work for you, and still the road to feudalism or construction (for longbows and cats) seems infinitely long. Then you see a zillion of Toku or Boudica's super promoted units partying in the city right near your border....
Gooblah
Heh...
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2007
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- 4,282
Man. That really sucks. At least you aren't Gandhi surrounded by Genghis Khan, Alexander, Catherine, and Isabella. I had to forgo all the religions but Islam, Christianity and Taoism to Isabella. She converted Alexander, while I had Genghis, and we both pitted our pet dogs on each other. What ended up happening was a world war. My LongBows all got City Garrison II from civics and the Barracks, and I was teching to Railroad like no tomorrow. I ended up grabbing Rifling en route and beat down Alex and Cat only to have the other jump on me. I ended up scorching the earth until i won a Conquest. Evil!
gettingfat
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2003
- Messages
- 1,417
Whenever I play a builder with aggressive leaders close to me and don't get good start conditions to rush, I pray for getting converted 
That's why I consider Toku the worst neighbour. He doesn't even open his border to send you the missionary.
That's why I consider Toku the worst neighbour. He doesn't even open his border to send you the missionary.
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