Tanks + collateral, yes or no? Vote!

[Lexicus]

They should add an Assault Gun unit, as I've said before.

However, in my opinion, taking away CR from tanks is a stupid idea. Yes, tanks were designed to win battles in the field, but in Civ IV gameplay, most if not all of the important battles take place in cities. Tanks without CR would have little or no impact on gameplay, because they would be practically useless at taking out entrenched infantry.

 

[King Flevance]

I guess we need a new poll with an option to remove BOTH barrage and city raider.

Woah, seriously? How bout we nerf them to a 1 str, and only allow them the Cg and drill promotions. That should stop people from wanting to use them.

I do like the idea of removing CR line though. I may have to change that real quick.


EDIT: Does 3.17 + Solver's patch retain all of 3.13 + Bhruics?

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

They should add an Assault Gun unit, as I've said before.

However, in my opinion, taking away CR from tanks is a stupid idea. Yes, tanks were designed to win battles in the field, but in Civ IV gameplay, most if not all of the important battles take place in cities. Tanks without CR would have little or no impact on gameplay, because they would be practically useless at taking out entrenched infantry.

That's what artillery is for. Tanks have strength 28 so with 3 combat promos (or 2 and a pinch) along with dealing collateral damage with your arty, you should have very few losses of tanks.

 

[Balderstrom]

But we all know that a Tank's true (over?)power comes from its Blitz ability!

I have much more fun with my Blitz'ing GunShips than Tanks


Artillery: Max splash: 8 Units, 85% Damage.
Tanks: Max splash: 5 Units, 60% Damage.

I'd be more apt to give Artillery an increased Withdrawal after a certain Tech, and give Artillery +1 Move after a Tech advancement.

I haven't perused thru where the bonuses would best fit, but it would enable Artillery to keep up with Tanks - or even just give us freaking Transport Trucks (2MV) that can carry Infantry et al + Artillery.

This whole Artillery/Tank issue is a lark, game balance is not THAT important to tick off your customers. When we used to do MUD coding, the objectives were almost always to improve things that were weaker than the "best" than just take the easy route and nerf the "bogus thing".

Firaxis could have easily added Transport Trucks, or given some type of improvement to Artillery. Instead Artillery was nerfed for Naval Assaults, and tanks were nerfed for Barrage. Extremely poor management of the design team.

 

[Slobadog]

Tanks with collateral damage is overpowered on small maps but arguably needed on large maps. The problem is time limit. If you want to win a conquest victory on a large map it can be difficult to conqure it all before the time limit runs out, even on marathon speed. Especially if you have been putting off much of the neccessary warfare till the later part of the game. And especially if the enemy is located overseas.




My solution is: Allow tanks to receive only barrage I. Prohibit them from receiving barrage II and III.

 

[King Flevance]

I have much more fun with my Blitz'ing GunShips than Tanks


Artillery: Max splash: 8 Units, 85% Damage.
Tanks: Max splash: 5 Units, 60% Damage.

I'd be more apt to give Artillery an increased Withdrawal after a certain Tech, and give Artillery +1 Move after a Tech advancement.

I haven't perused thru where the bonuses would best fit, but it would enable Artillery to keep up with Tanks - or even just give us freaking Transport Trucks (2MV) that can carry Infantry et al + Artillery.

This whole Artillery/Tank issue is a lark, game balance is not THAT important to tick off your customers. When we used to do MUD coding, the objectives were almost always to improve things that were weaker than the "best" than just take the easy route and nerf the "bogus thing".

Firaxis could have easily added Transport Trucks, or given some type of improvement to Artillery. Instead Artillery was nerfed for Naval Assaults, and tanks were nerfed for Barrage. Extremely poor management of the design team.

Nice post.

I am sure someone has a transport truck unit floating around somewhere on this forum. I have seriously given this some thought of adding in to my own mod. What do you think carrying capacity should be, Balder? I am thinking of unlocking them one at combustion with carrying capacity of 3, then another at maybe radio with capacity of 6.

 

[Balderstrom]

When I mull it over in my head, I'd prefer to go the full out route and assign a Size rating to Units; Carrying Capacity to "Transports".

Human Type, Size: 15, Machines (Artillery): 20; Tanks: 20

Carrying Capacity of Transports Truck: 60 (can't go over).
= 4 Infantry | 3 Artillery | 2 INF+1 ART | 1 INF+2 ART

Perhaps too much work for the sake of a 1 unit difference. So if not that, I agree, general capacity of 3.

If I did get the Size/Capacity working, would likely give Transport (Boats): 60, and GunShips 30-35, and limit the gunship in 2 ways.
-> If it Unloads, it cannot attack - even if it has Blitz.
-> If it Attacks, it cannot unload - even if it has Blitz.

Though I prefer the progression of ~4 Unit Capacity to ~6 Unit Capacity, 50% Increase instead of 100% 3/6; so would go 3/5 not 3/6.

I dunno if I would go too too far with it... but its hard to NOT envision a small army of GunShips with Paratroopers dropping out of them hehehe.

 

[jimbob27]

I dunno if I would go too too far with it... but its hard to NOT envision a small army of GunShips with Paratroopers dropping out of them hehehe.

Yeah, I mean it's only the modern America gunships like apaches that don't carry passengers. The older ones (hueys) and most of the russian ones carry passengers.

 

[Plinko16]

The problem is time limit. If you want to win a conquest victory on a large map it can be difficult to conqure it all before the time limit runs out, even on marathon speed.

I don't understand at all how the time limit is at all affected by the barrage promotion for tanks? I mean, you don't have to attack with fewer units, you can get away with weaker units to clean up the collaterally-damaged. . . I guess maybe you lose fewer units?

 

[SirLamphead]

I voted no because of realism. It may have a gun barrel on it but it really isn't meant for multiple targets at once. I do like the CD to soften up enemies. Modern Armors are sometimes more effective when attacking another continent then marines...

 

[Slobadog]

Plinko16 Posted: I don't understand at all how the time limit is at all affected by the barrage promotion for tanks? I mean, you don't have to attack with fewer units, you can get away with weaker units to clean up the collaterally-damaged. . . I guess maybe you lose fewer units?

A unit that can do collateral damage is more powerful. More power = faster conquest.









Alright here is another solution.



Armored units get barrage I but not II and III.



Armored units lose access to flanking 2.






This results in Drill promoted gunpowder units being a effective counter to barrage I promoted tanks.



This results in gameplay balance. Maybe.