Tanks no more cause collateral damage on 3.17

[Deep_Blue]

Is it just me or do you have the same problem?

I have Barrage II tanks (many) and Barrage III tanks (few) and I noticed that they don't cause any collateral damage when attacking a city !! That happened to me after upgrading to 3.17.

Also I noticed that flank attack is greatly reduced (or not happening at all.. I am not sure) even with large number of attacking cavalries.

 

[6K Man]

This is an intentional effect of the patch. I believe the ability to add barrage promos was taken away by the unofficial (Solver's) patch to the 3.17 patch (which, as you have experienced, still allows you to add Barrage to Tanks, but with no effect).

 

[-FC-Commando]

Finally a thread on this subject.

I noticed it too. This is a real turnaround in my tactics.

I now make machine guns which i never did before to counter those damned airships. Thanks you guys for this. I also make anti tanks which also has gotten anti air capabilities. Never build those before either.

So after only making a stack of tanks, infantry and artillery i now make a more diverse attack force. I still make tanks but promote them to city raider and attack the city after i lob a few arty's against the defenders.

It's the best balancing act if seen in ages, BUT why let a tank upgade to a colatteral promotion if its incapable of using it. Now everybody has to experience this and probably have theyre game screwed up. So why not take the promotion from 3.17?

 

[Deep_Blue]

So it is intentional in the patch? are you sure?
Then why they didn't just remove the promotion as well? What a waste now I have tons of tanks with Barrage promotions in my current game

This changes many things now I need more artilarries and less tanks, before this I used to make number of tanks with barrage promotions and attacking with them when the odds are high to kill a unit and cause collateral damage in the same time and saving some artilleries in the process.

What about flanking is it removed or reduced in the patch?

 

[Deep_Blue]

Finally a thread on this subject.

I noticed it too. This is a real turnaround in my tactics.

I now make machine guns which i never did before to counter those damned airships. Thanks you guys for this. I also make anti tanks which also has gotten anti air capabilities. Never build those before either.

So after only making a stack of tanks, infantry and artillery i now make a more diverse attack force. I still make tanks but promote them to city raider and attack the city after i lob a few arty's against the defenders.

It's the best balancing act if seen in ages, BUT why let a tank upgade to a colatteral promotion if its incapable of using it. Now everybody has to experience this and probably have theyre game screwed up. So why not take the promotion from 3.17?

I agree this changes alot in the tactics. Tanks with collateral are very powerful.

Just a note I think Sams are better for countering airships.

 

[Inky]

Using Solver's unofficial patch fixes this issue.

First, collateral damage was negated on armor with the 3.17 patch, but the promotion wasn't removed. Solver's unofficial patch removes the promotion, but it also corrects the total negation of collateral damage for units without any base collateral damage, such as tanks.

The idea of removing the barrage promotion from armor was to increase the need for other units. Tanks may still dominate battles, but aren't enough by themselves.

As far as I know, while flanking was changed it wasn't negated by the patch. The number of units damaged is limited, reducing the effect on large stacks.

 

[TheDS]

Heh, not enough by themselves. I couldn't send unescorted Tanks into enemy territory very often, but yeah, I get what you're saying.

 

[obsolete]

So it is intentional in the patch? are you sure?

I highly doubt it's intentional!

It's about as intentional as the bugs that were making your own vassals DoW on you, or having a civ you are at war with GIFT you 3 cities for no apparent reason.

 

[thouli]

I think this was a poor change... I don't like it.
-Tom

 

[6K Man]

To clarify (and please correct me if I'm wrong): The intention in the 3.17 patch was to remove the collateral damage ability from Tanks. This was accomplished, but due to an apparent oversight, you can still add a Barrage promo (which does nothing) in the 3.17 patch.

What Solver's patch does is remove the ability to add Barrage promos to Tanks. If you don't like this and decide to mod the files to allow Barrage for Tanks, it will work normally.

 

[bestbrian]

Removing the Barrage promos from Tanks makes sense now that the game has Mobile Artillery to keep up with the fast stacks, but leaving the promo in the cue is a big oversight. I still think that CR promos should be removed from Tanks - ciites are kryptonite for armor in RL. As far as Flanking goes, it was my understanding the the 3.17 patch fixed problems with Flanking and that it now works as intended.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yeah the promo is broken...since this thread is like a month old, the new best use of tanks IMO is city raider. Often accompanied by spies which by then you'll have the EP to drop defenses easily...alternatives would be nukes or air superiority.

 

[FriendoftheDork]

Flanking still works in my experience, but to a limited number of units. The key now is to use strong cavalry, if you use horse archers vs pikemen in forest guarding cats, not much will get through. But knights against longbows and of course cavalry works very well (flank attack against low-tech units is a great change!). And something amazed me: Flank attacks unlike collateral can actually kill enemy units! After repeatedly attacking an enemy stack with Cuirassiers I noticed my last one managed to kill off 3 trebuchets in one attack!

As for tanks... nerfs are seldom appriciated, but I don't mind so much and think this is good for balance. But bad oversight to forget to remove the promo.

 

[Handel]

There is at least 1 more useless promo - giving War Elephants the -1 movement. This was so in the Warlords and wasn't changed after zillion of patches.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

There is at least 1 more useless promo - giving War Elephants the -1 movement. This was so in the Warlords and wasn't changed after zillion of patches.

Theoretically you could at least upgrade them to cavalry, unlike the complete uslessness of barrage on 3.17 tanks.

 

[6K Man]

I can't count the number of times that I saved an Elephant with 10+ xp, wanting to get it to 17 and promote it to Blitz before upgrading it to Knight/Cavalry... only to find that it can't get Blitz due to having movement=1.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I can't count the number of times that I saved an Elephant with 10+ xp, wanting to get it to 17 and promote it to Blitz before upgrading it to Knight/Cavalry... only to find that it can't get Blitz due to having movement=1.

You have BTS? IIRC in BTS you can't get things like blitz/commando/etc before military science. Also, IIRC phants only upgrade to cuirassers or cavalry, not knights.

 

[DanF5771]

You can always attach a GG to a jumbo to create an uber-phant and give it Morale so you can take advantage of Mobility --> that's an uber-phant-weasel
Edit: even 2 uber-phants with Morale can't get Blitz!

 

[bestbrian]

You can always attach a GG to a jumbo to create an uber-phant and give it Morale so you can take advantage of Mobility --> that's an uber-phant-weasel

Or make it Amphibious.

Actually, my biggest problem with promos is that obsolete promos are still availible for modern units. Later in the game, I'll just start clicking and not paying full attention and then "Dammit!", I'm stuck with another Shock-promoted Cannon or MG.

 

[Handel]

Or make it Amphibious.

Actually, my biggest problem with promos is that obsolete promos are still availible for modern units. Later in the game, I'll just start clicking and not paying full attention and then "Dammit!", I'm stuck with another Shock-promoted Cannon or MG.

The spearmen are very dangerous units. You will understand it when my spearmen kills your bomber!