Tech/Civic Shuffle; does the AI know?

[Hormagaunt]

When we play without shuffle, we see the entire tech and civic trees, where everything is and what leads to what. Oh, and what actions will give us a Tech/Civic boost.

Without shuffle, the AI (presumably) sees the list the same as we do and can therefore plan ahead to beeline if necessary for something it wants.

When we play with shuffle, we only see what's immediately available and the same for actions for boosts.

Is this true for the AI? Does it have the same drawback(s) we have where we can't see far ahead in the tree, or does it have the advantage that it *does* see the entire shuffled tree?

Current game, I'm Germany. In Tech, I'm 8 techs ahead of the second-place AI. Sadly, can't say how many Civics I'm behind by; just that I am behind.

I'm 4 turns from Democracy. Brazil has just switched government to Synthetic Technocracy.

 

[Socrates99]

Babylon seemed to figure it out last time I saw him. He was breezing through the tree. It feels like it slows me down more than it slows them. I can't beeline the same with it on.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Babylon seemed to figure it out last time I saw him. He was breezing through the tree. It feels like it slows me down more than it slows them. I can't beeline the same with it on.

Babylon is an unfair choice, Babylon has a MASSIVE advantage in getting insta-techs the moment they unlock any Eureka, Eurekas are still the same.

Observe the progress of Civs who have benefit to Science Per turn but no benefits to Eurekas. Korea is a good test to see if the AI has an advantage of not.

 

[Socrates99]

Babylon is an unfair choice, Babylon has a MASSIVE advantage in getting insta-techs the moment they unlock any Eureka, Eurekas are still the same.

Observe the progress of Civs who have benefit to Science Per turn but no benefits to Eurekas. Korea is a good test to see if the AI has an advantage of not.

But the eurekas and inspirations are how you find the techs on the tree. If Hammurabi wasn't able to get them with the tree obfuscated he'd fall way behind because his per turn science is horrible. He obviously knew what to do to get the Eurekas.

The civs that get science per turn might not follow their typical path, like how Vicki and Harald rush the Maratime techs or Lautaro always rushes his UU but they seem to navigate the jumbled tree fine. I only pointed out Hammurabi because knowing the eurekas is 100% a necessity for him.

Their main failing (other than war) is building too many farms and not enough mines, getting crap adjacencies, or just not improving tiles in general.

I find shuffle hurts the player more than AI because I can't rush things the same. I need to figure out where stuff is and may waste time on techs I'd otherwise skip.

 

[Infixo]

But the eurekas and inspirations are how you find the techs on the tree. If Hammurabi wasn't able to get them with the tree obfuscated he'd fall way behind because his per turn science is horrible. He obviously knew what to do to get the Eurekas.

Well, he knows the same as any other civ and the same as a human who already played a game.
There is a subsystem that actively tries to create conditions to catch the boosts. It is working all the time and for all civs equally, there is no exception, and it doesn't matter if shuffle mode is on or off.
You can basically compare it to a human who already played a game and knows all eurekas and inspirations. You don't know where exactly the techs and civics are on the tree, but you can still try to create necessary items to get them as quickly as they are aviailable. This is how AI works in regards to boosts.

Also, on an unrelated note - this why Hammurabi falls back so hard around renaissance / industrial era. The boosts are more difficult to get and there are techs that require a spy of GS to boost through. AI is not good with that and Hammurabi really struggles.

 

[HiRezAudio]

Well, he knows the same as any other civ and the same as a human who already played a game.
There is a subsystem that actively tries to create conditions to catch the boosts. It is working all the time and for all civs equally, there is no exception, and it doesn't matter if shuffle mode is on or off.
You can basically compare it to a human who already played a game and knows all eurekas and inspirations. You don't know where exactly the techs and civics are on the tree, but you can still try to create necessary items to get them as quickly as they are aviailable. This is how AI works in regards to boosts.

Also, on an unrelated note - this why Hammurabi falls back so hard around renaissance / industrial era. The boosts are more difficult to get and there are techs that require a spy of GS to boost through. AI is not good with that and Hammurabi really struggles.

All very good points & very well made.
In general, it does not matter too much if the human player falls some way behind in science early on as it is so easy to catch up later - not only does the AI struggle once it gets to a certain point, it is very simple indeed to create a couple of heavy cavalry units & pillage your way back to parity with the right policy cards plugged in. Once these cavs are promoted to multiple pillages per turn, you can get a new tech every other turn just by pillaging campus sites. It's so overpowered.

 

[PiR]

Well, he knows the same as any other civ and the same as a human who already played a game.

already played... 1000 times?

or is just compulsively reading the Civilopedia

 

[Infixo]

already played... 1000 times?
or is just compulsively reading the Civilopedia

or is using Better Tech Tree